Messing with a 404

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Selekta

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Hi all,

Trying to start a 404 that has previously had the guts cut out of the wiring loom.

Can I just jump the positive side of the coil to 12V? Wiring diagram says this goes back behind the instrument cluster usually. I don’t see a ballast resistor anywhere, I don’t want to burn out the points. I don’t see anything except for a voltage reg with a GMH part number (Australian built ‘65 model, so normal I guess) and a weird box Mixo, made in France that I’ve never seen before.

Also, I see DF and D+ on the voltage reg. I see DF on the back of the (generator? Looks original). Do I connect DF to DF?

I suppose D+ is 12V and I could connect the coil there? If there isn’t a ballast resistor anywhere?
 
LVtZtIz.jpeg


oteqiwW.jpeg
 
Resistor is in the coil, lucky me

Bosch alternator - DF goes to the voltage reg, IND… is that the dash indicator? B+ must go to the post on the starter motor that the positive battery cable connects to?

Is there nowhere to connect D+ of the voltage reg? Do I need to earth the alt?
 
No problem jumping 12v to the ignition coil.

Alternator is earthed through it's body.
Large terminal on the alternator (usually marked 'B+' or something like that) should go to the battery, often via the large starter motor terminal.
DF ('field') terminal on the regulator goes to a matching 'DF' terminal on the alternator.
D+ ('indicator') terminal on the regulator goes to one side of a globe on the dashboard, the other side of which is connected to a switched +12v ignition feed. This will give you a light on the dashboard should the alternator stop charging (especially useful if the fanbelt breaks and you have no water pump!).
If the alternator has a D+ terminal (often they don't in this era), connect it to the D+ on the regulator also.
The body of the regulator must also be earthed.
 
Selekta said:
Hi all,

Trying to start a 404 that has previously had the guts cut out of the wiring loom.

Can I just jump the positive side of the coil to 12V? Wiring diagram says this goes back behind the instrument cluster usually. I don’t see a ballast resistor anywhere, I don’t want to burn out the points. I don’t see anything except for a voltage reg with a GMH part number (Australian built ‘65 model, so normal I guess) and a weird box Mixo, made in France that I’ve never seen before.

Also, I see DF and D+ on the voltage reg. I see DF on the back of the (generator? Looks original). Do I connect DF to DF?

I suppose D+ is 12V and I could connect the coil there? If there isn’t a ballast resistor anywhere?
Click to expand...
65 model has a generator not an alternator. Mixo is not the old regulator for the generator, this would be a Ducellier at the back of the engine bay.
 
If you're trying to hotwire it just to start it, run a wire from the coil's + terminal straiģht to + on the battery. If you ran it to the alternator, depending on which terminal you choose there may not be enough voltage (or any voltage) at cranking speed to power the coil.
 
Well, she spluttered to life. Thanks all.

Generator (alternator?) for reference:

It’s a Bosch unit. Seems to be same model as the other pickup (‘68) but different to the Lucas on the ‘70

tG80f3c.jpeg


None of my service manuals mention anything about Bosch. The coil is also Bosch. (SU12)
 
Selekta said:
Well, she spluttered to life. Thanks all.

Generator (alternator?) for reference:

It’s a Bosch unit. Seems to be same model as the other pickup (‘68) but different to the Lucas on the ‘70

tG80f3c.jpeg


None of my service manuals mention anything about Bosch. The coil is also Bosch. (SU12)
Click to expand...
Thats been sitting a long time.
 
By my calculations (the car came with somebodies entire life story, in boxes, in the back), since 1996.

A 2 litre hey? Explains the floor shifter someone’s put in.

Engine bay of the ‘70 pick up:

ytulozn.jpeg


Anything there say it’s not an XC7?
 
Selekta said:
By my calculations (the car came with somebodies entire life story, in boxes, in the back), since 1996.

A 2 litre hey? Explains the floor shifter someone’s put in.

Engine bay of the ‘70 pick up:

ytulozn.jpeg


Anything there say it’s not an XC7?
Click to expand...
Just about everything, especially the twin barrel carburettor. This is an early xn1 2 litre from a 504.
 
That’s 3 404’s, every single one of them XN1 powered. Guess I’d better put away the 404 manuals and find a 504 one.
 
Which thickness metal for the floorpan? 1.8mm? Callipers are on the fritz.
 
Selekta said:
Which thickness metal for the floorpan? 1.8mm? Callipers are on the fritz.
Click to expand...
1.8mm is pretty heavy (15 gauge) most car bodies are either 18 or 20 gauge, (1 to 1.2mm).
You'd have fun shaping 1.8mm sheet.🥵
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
404s did have thicker metal but maybe not that much.
Click to expand...
A 404 is almost identical in size and weight to the large Farina bodied BMC car with a 4 cyl engine: Austin A55 MK2, A60, Morris Oxford etc.
They were a mix of 18 and 20 gauge sheet (1 to 1.2 mm), depending on which section of the car it was being used. 18 gauge in "chassis" rails etc and 20 gauge in non structural panels.
I've patched up all manner of cars made in the '50s to the '80s, and these are the only two sheet metal gauges I've come across.
 
505 had thinner steel and glass than the earlier cars, one reason why the weight was kept down to 1250 kg, featherweight these days.
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
505 had thinner steel and glass than the earlier cars, one reason why the weight was kept down to 1250 kg, featherweight these days.
Click to expand...
Yes most manufacturers by the late 70' early '80s had started to thin things down. The once common 18 gauge was replaced by 20 gauge, then 22 gauge. The "high strength steel" on new cars is as thin as 24 gauge (0.6 mm). All in the pursuit of lightness, but the cars aren't particularly light because of all the electrical stuff they shove in them anyway.🤦‍♂️
The aluminium skin on my Reliant's boot lid is only 0.4 mms thick (26 gauge), but I had to build a space frame underneath to maintain the structure's shape, the entire boot only ended up weighing exactly 2 kg though, including paint..
The factory, "lightweight", fibreglass boot, was just over 5 kgs in weight.

Resized_20210623_085320.jpeg
 
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