C5X7 or C6 or DS4/5? Which to buy?

Bruce H

Bruce H

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The scenario: both the European car workshops in town have now said they won't work on my 1999 Xantias, one no Citroens at all and the other if it is fail to proceed/ major breakdown (It is too old). Nearest Citroen dealer is about 200 k's away. So I'm thinking I may need to replace my 99 SX daily driver with almost 125000k's on it with something newer. (Towing my GS fits within weight restrictions).

Used usually just for the driver to go shopping (30 k round trip) a couple of times a week, and to go thr 300k's to Brisbane every couple of months.

I'd prefer a wagon or a hatch with less than 125000k's, not sure I need as much room as a Picasso. I'd prefer petrol but know that limits Citroen options in recent years. $15 to 20 thousand spend possible.

C6 - are they now too old and too complex?

C5X7 - most have too many K's, and they seem to be aging with a range of (possibly minor) issues.

I've already been there, done that with the DS3, not the best tourer and few late ones around.

Don't seem to be a lot of DS4 or DS5's around with low k's.

Always found C4 sedans to look a bit ordinary, so would one be much better than buying an easily serviced Corolla?

Thoughts (just to confuse me more and allow me to procrastinate for longer - I really like my Xantia)?
 
The one with least hassles and parts problems is the C5 X7, preferably a 2.0L RHH diesel. Not too late or you'll have Adblue. This engine is also fitted to Ford Mondeo, which gives another choice for service. 6 cylinder C5 diesels (and C6s) are more trouble with age than the 2.0. They have boots, though you might snag a tourer.

The C4 B7 hatch is a very pleasant comfortable drive and quite roomy, but the EGS self changing gearbox ("auto" at used car dealers) often fitted would freak those mechanics there and conventional manuals on petrols are like hen's teeth. Quite conventional mechanicals. Engines are EP6 variants or three pot EB2 or 1.6 diesel. I drove one on the dreadful roads around Dungog and got a decent ride.

DS4s are rare and body parts rarer.

I can't understand a mechanic who baulks at a Xantia. People won't look at Citroens never have - too full of silly prejudice.
 
Far out, the car industry has become so fragmented (parts and tech info issues for multple models of multiple brands too hard to keep up with) and mechanics so overworked it's easier for them to say no if it's too hard. Times have changed! I wonder if it really is all that difficult though, with so much parts sharing. I don't know.

C5 X7 with RHH 2.0 turbo-diesel (2010-on) gets my vote. It was the car that brought me back to French brands, for quality of fit and finish, touring ability and reliability, performance, great economy, great value used... need I go on? Sure, they have their weaknesses (search the forum, been discussed plenty of times), but best moden Citroen, in my opinion -- although newest is now what... 7 years old? Prices appear to be stabilising. A late model wagon with low km would be hard to find (I have not seen many). A 2012 C5 2.0 Tourer sold here last week in Sydney after a week on Gumtree, advertised for $12K (I don't know what it sold for). Very low km sedan on carsales, I think in the $20Ks but surely would take an offer under $20K (if it hasn't sold; the ad keeps being put on hold and then live again).

Not sure if you meant you'll be towing your GS with the new car; be aware of feeble towball download max permitted on these cars.
 
“Not sure if you meant you'll be towing your GS with the new car; be aware of feeble towball download max permitted on these cars.”
No, if I need to get the GS to a specialist it can be trailered behind the campervan.
 
Sorry to hear about the anti-Citroen discrimination shown by you local mechanics - my Xantia SX wagon has done almost double the km of your Xantia SX - engine and hydraulics are fine! Admittedly it is currently off the road, but it is all electrical issues (dead alternator, and multiple fractures hidden inside the insulation), so any decent sparky (or me if I was committed enough) could fix it.

Have you considered a C4 Picasso? Avoid the EGS transmision...
 
If you want petrol and a hatch then you might look for a C5 hatch 2005-2008 either with the 2.0lt EW10 4 cylinder and AL4 gearbox or the V6 ES9 with the AM6 auto. This V6 is a very much overlooked model because everyone wanted the diesel versions. The AM6 gearbox works much better with the V6 than the 4 speed ZF 4HP20 ever did. There were not a lot of the 2.0 petrols sold here and most were auto. There are a small number of manual versions of the 2.0lt petrol and they are much more lively to drive than the auto, which can be a real slug getting off the mark.
If you wanted an X7 petrol, then it would be sedan only with either the 1.6lt EP6 and a 6 speed auto in various specs OR one of a small number of EW10 4 cylinders with an AL4. This latter model was sold as an entry level model in fairly small numbers around 2011/12. They are often incorrectly advertised as they are a slightly odd model. Of course all of these models are less DIY than any SX Xantia would be.
 
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“If you want petrol and a hatch then you might look for a C5 hatch 2005-2008 either with the 2.0lt EW10 4 cylinder and AL4 gearbox or the V6 ES9 with the AM6 auto. This V6 is a very much overlooked model because everyone wanted the diesel versions.“

The pre X7 C5’s seem unpopular, is it just that the X7 is a much better sorted car? Why were the diesels more popular, just fuel consumption (I know in Europe it was a fuel price issue). Are the diesel versions of the 05-08 any better or worse than the petrol versions? Same age as many of the local C6’s so I suppose the same sorts of maintenance may result. What type of auto gearbox do you get in the diesels?
 
Bruce, why not just recommission the GS, there's not much that can go wrong for the mileage you're doing. It's a perfect all-rounder and not complicated to live with. Once you've got yours freshened up and in regular use again you'll love it.
 
It was mostly that with the facelift Hatch C5 range the HDi was pushed at the expense of the relatively expensive petrol V6, which had been a fairly popular choice in the original C5 lineup where it outshone the relatively unrefined diesel with AL4 gearbox. The 6 speed cars were a big improvement. It was largely that diesel had become a bit trendy at the time in the same way as it's not now in the minds of many. The long range and effortless torque were attractions, but there is more complication on later model diesels to meet emission requirements and those issues are bound to catch you out as the parts age. I don't think the older cars are explicitly unpopular, but the used car market will push them down as ever newer models slot into that 'affordable' segment. Why do you think the Xantia has so little demand? They all have weak points - rear arm bearings on the hatch and some of the bushes in the front end on X7s and struts in higher miles cars for example. The X7s in general probably rode a bit better than the Hydractive 3+ earlier versions, partly because of the multi-link suspension replacing Macpherson-style front struts and CX-thru-XM style rear arms.
With the local servicing issues you mention, I would not pick a C6 or a V6 HDi X7. You could be best to stick with the Xantia, keeping your own stock of bits and training a different local mechanic. You can at least find a workable repair manual for a Xantia and it's not computerised s is any car with a BSI and multiplexed system.
 
Bruce H said:
The scenario: both the European car workshops in town have now said they won't work on my 1999 Xantias, one no Citroens at all and the other if it is fail to proceed/ major breakdown (It is too old). Nearest Citroen dealer is about 200 k's away. So I'm thinking I may need to replace my 99 SX daily driver with almost 125000k's on it with something newer. (Towing my GS fits within weight restrictions).

Used usually just for the driver to go shopping (30 k round trip) a couple of times a week, and to go thr 300k's to Brisbane every couple of months.

I'd prefer a wagon or a hatch with less than 125000k's, not sure I need as much room as a Picasso. I'd prefer petrol but know that limits Citroen options in recent years. $15 to 20 thousand spend possible.

C6 - are they now too old and too complex?

C5X7 - most have too many K's, and they seem to be aging with a range of (possibly minor) issues.

I've already been there, done that with the DS3, not the best tourer and few late ones around.

Don't seem to be a lot of DS4 or DS5's around with low k's.

Always found C4 sedans to look a bit ordinary, so would one be much better than buying an easily serviced Corolla?

Thoughts (just to confuse me more and allow me to procrastinate for longer - I really like my Xantia)?
Click to expand...
Problem with cars of those era…. Too complicated and not really suitable for diy. I noticed that most of mechanic do not want to work on older car anymore. I guess too time consuming and too expensive if they charge customer by hour. There are much newer cars for them to change oil and replace brake pads…. Car with computer are disposable
 
I think the popularity of diesels is about the effortless torque and lazy lowish rev drive. The 6 speed Aisin box is a perfect match - goes everywhere, city or country, at about 2000 rpm with maximum torque.

The RHH (DW10C) engine has a lot less to worry about over time than a 1.6 turbo petrol.
 
I ask about the C6 because I've read the ride is exceptional, and until about 12 months ago I did spot one in town on occasion. The "local" dealer has told me there's a new C5X in town, so I'm wondering if the C6 got traded, and if it usually got fixed in Nambour.
 
It is exceptional and gorgeous. But the C6, is ageing with the 6 cyl engine, and has differences from the C5 (eg the suspension struts) that are in the hard to get category. This is why I didn't mention it, since you have a mechanic problem. They'd freak if a C6 drove in.
 
Keep in mind that you can't get used C6-only parts locally because there are no wrecks around as there are for C5 models. Yes, parts can of course be found in Europe. Some new parts are NLA and others, such as struts, are costly. The mechanicals and systems are largely as for a C5 X7 2.7HDi other than the suspension control. The point here is that if you are worried about servicing a relatively simple Xantia SX, then a C6 certainly will not be any easier to manage.

If you are feeling game there is a c6 on CarSales in Melbourne asking $16K. It was a Sydney car and the current owner would be about the 5th and acquired from Sydney fairly recently and never transferred to Vic plates. You are bound to need to spend something on it given it hasn't made it on to Vic rego as yet. Buying one already on Qld rego is probably a smarter move for you though.
 
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Just another point to throw in here is the weight and the resulting road tax. In NSW it's based on tare and rises in steps. XM V6 tare is 1,494kg per the rego papers and road tax as the major part of the rego charge is $330. Xantia will be a lower tare, even with a V6. Surprisingly, a facelift C5 2.2HDi has a listed tare of more at 1,566kg and the road tax charged on the next step up is $505. Tare for a C6 is listed at 1,888kg by CarSales. For comparison, a 1970's V12 Jaguar sedan, which you might think of as a heavy car is a mere 1,620kg.
 
I test drove a 2.2L X7 C5 and the balance seemed wrong. And a friend lent me his C6 for a week. The front seat was too many acres of flat leather and the pale interior was just too bright. I’ll be keeping my 2015 C5 Exclusive as long as I can. Still, I’ll never forget the first time I saw the C6, and I can’t be indifferent whenever I see one.
 
Bruce H said:
The scenario: both the European car workshops in town have now said they won't work on my 1999 Xantias, one no Citroens at all and the other if it is fail to proceed/ major breakdown (It is too old). Nearest Citroen dealer is about 200 k's away. So I'm thinking I may need to replace my 99 SX daily driver with almost 125000k's on it with something newer. (Towing my GS fits within weight restrictions).

Used usually just for the driver to go shopping (30 k round trip) a couple of times a week, and to go thr 300k's to Brisbane every couple of months.

I'd prefer a wagon or a hatch with less than 125000k's, not sure I need as much room as a Picasso. I'd prefer petrol but know that limits Citroen options in recent years. $15 to 20 thousand spend possible.

C6 - are they now too old and too complex?

C5X7 - most have too many K's, and they seem to be aging with a range of (possibly minor) issues.

I've already been there, done that with the DS3, not the best tourer and few late ones around.

Don't seem to be a lot of DS4 or DS5's around with low k's.

Always found C4 sedans to look a bit ordinary, so would one be much better than buying an easily serviced Corolla?

Thoughts (just to confuse me more and allow me to procrastinate for longer - I really like my Xantia)?
Click to expand...
Just keep the Xantia. At 125000 it's barely run in - especially if it's a manual. I have two C5s as well as the Xantias but no one in the family of six drivers will pick a C5 ahead of a Xantia to drive.

Procrastination recommended.

Kim
 
hi Bruce. have you tried Gallehawks at 123 Torquay Rd, Scarness. George did some servicing on my BX when I had it including a bit on the suspension. It is now with Craig Keller in NSW. But I was happy with Gallehawks work.George loves older cars. I have seen him work on Morgan, VW especially MGs and everything else. If you haven't tried him give it a go. When I get my recently acquired CX here I will be using him. I would be trying to keep my Xantia if I could. Cheers David
 
Seems like these older Citroens are just too complicated and loads of problems with every model.
Time to change to Renault :)
 
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