C5 hydroelectric pump in electric DS?

[Andy N]

I have not seen a conversion up close ... but why would an electric motor need the original gearbox ? ..... of course the brakes are attached, but surely most of the oily bits will be redundant with instant torque available. Would you only use say two gears ?

In my opinion it’s easier to retain the original 4-speed manual gearbox and clutch assembly. Doing so allows more variable ratios than a single reduction gear, even if 1st and reverse gears would rarely be used.

Taking off from standstill in 3rd gear is ok in most cases and the motor peaks at 8000rpm so you could even just use third, but I change to 4th above 100 or so just to ease the workload of 3rd gear and the motor.

For reverse I put on a switch on the dash (R-N-D) to change motor direction, but you can still use reverse gear if desired.

The off-throttle regen varies in each gear so it means you can change up and down gears and get a variable “engine braking” feel. A switch for regen in three modes on the dash is added to make adjustments on the go. Sometimes I like to coast and at other times adjust between low and high regen. The high mode pulls the car up so much that, especially in 2nd gear brakes aren't needed. It's sometimes good on twisty country roads with short connections between bends. Coming into a corner and lifting off throttle it slows enough for the so-called 'one pedal driving.' I think it will be even better with FWD with less tendency to lock up the rear wheels.

I've only explored the use of Tesla drive units as a combined motor/inverter/ differential system. It would definitely be possible in a DS. Adapting the Tesla inner axle stubs to a DS inboard disc arrangement and driveshaft seemed a bit of a challenge to me. I'm happier to retain or reconfigure what is there and play at relatively lower voltages than the ~400v used with Tesla drive units. Also there's then the need for more batteries to series up the voltage to match. I would think it would work brilliantly in a CX however even if there's limited room for batteries......my CX safari however ;-)

 

[Ken W]

So Andy, is an SM on the cards for future conversions?

Cheers, Ken

 

[keepsmiling]

In my opinion it’s easier to retain the original 4-speed manual gearbox and clutch assembly. Doing so allows more variable ratios than a single reduction gear, even if 1st and reverse gears would rarely be used.

Taking off from standstill in 3rd gear is ok in most cases and the motor peaks at 8000rpm so you could even just use third, but I change to 4th above 100 or so just to ease the workload of 3rd gear and the motor.

For reverse I put on a switch on the dash (R-N-D) to change motor direction, but you can still use reverse gear if desired.

The off-throttle regen varies in each gear so it means you can change up and down gears and get a variable “engine braking” feel. A switch for regen in three modes on the dash is added to make adjustments on the go. Sometimes I like to coast and at other times adjust between low and high regen. The high mode pulls the car up so much that, especially in 2nd gear brakes aren't needed. It's sometimes good on twisty country roads with short connections between bends. Coming into a corner and lifting off throttle it slows enough for the so-called 'one pedal driving.' I think it will be even better with FWD with less tendency to lock up the rear wheels.

I've only explored the use of Tesla drive units as a combined motor/inverter/ differential system. It would definitely be possible in a DS. Adapting the Tesla inner axle stubs to a DS inboard disc arrangement and driveshaft seemed a bit of a challenge to me. I'm happier to retain or reconfigure what is there and play at relatively lower voltages than the ~400v used with Tesla drive units. Also there's then the need for more batteries to series up the voltage to match. I would think it would work brilliantly in a CX however even if there's limited room for batteries......my CX safari however ;-)

IMO, you may have an engineering nightmare custom engineering inboard discs/calipers attached to Tesla or any other drive shafts in a DS.

 

[Andy N]

So Andy, is an SM on the cards for future conversions?

Cheers, Ken

Hi Ken, An SM would deserve a proper electric drive unit, however it’s a sensitive area converting an even rarer model whose Maserati engine, with some modifications to strengthen key areas, is a marvel of lightness, compactness and symphony of sound from those beautiful twin exhausts! So yeah for me it would have to be an SM donor without its engine and a solid body. I would want to triple the power output up to the 600hp that a large Tesla drive unit could output. There’s bound to be someone in California or perhaps Germany converting an SM in this way. I heard there’s at least 4 electric DS in Germany, and a small but enthusiastic group of SM owners and specialist support. Would be great to meet that guy with the land speed record for his modified SM in the US wouldn’t it! I wonder if he would be interested in making a very fast electric SM? I’d love to be somehow involved in the process of that. What are your thoughts Ken on an electric SM? Would you ever consider doing that to your SM?

 

[faulksy]

That SM was built by Jerry Hathaway who passed away a couple of years ago. There's a few people around here that spent a lot of time with him learning about the SM.

 

[Andy N]

Jerry Hathaway rest in peace. I feel a bit bad now about recklessly referring to him as “that SM guy,” of course I had the feeling he was a giant in that world of not just SM’s but no doubt a wizard of engineering and invention of countless projects. There’s at least one recorded chat between Jerry and Jay Leno (who knew him well it seems). It’s a great loss of knowledge and skill with each passing, now this generation are starting to leave us. To have even 10% of the mind and tactical skills of my friend John Davies (former CX turbo owner) would be life transforming (he’s a retired engineer with what I see as superpowers, how he can make things work and problem solve so clearly and calmly).

 

[AlexB]

that guy with the land speed record for his modified SM in the US

Sold a few years back, plenty more eye candy photos of his cars in this link

1972 Citroën SM Land Speed Racer | Gooding & Company

Without ReserveThe World’s Fastest Citroën; Built by America’s Preeminent SM ExpertsTwin-Turbocharged SM-Based Racer with Speed Records in Excess of 200 MPHCustom Built Trailer Using Height-Adjustable Citroën Suspension Offered as a Single Lot from 40-Year OwnershipAn Ingenious Trio of Vehicles...

bid.goodingco.com

 

[DoubleChevron]

you would never destroy an SM by fitting an electric motor. Take a car that's lasted 50years and put a battery in it that'll last maybe 8 years. this makes zero sense given the tiny milage they would do in that time (the maserati would have probably only needed a handful of oil changes .. given the limited milage .... rather than a $20,000++++ battery replacement...... ).

lets not mention absolutley decimating its value .... it would pretty much become a parts car unless the original motor could be found and refitted without extensive rebuilding of the cars struture.

 

[KAndy]

Andy N, very keen on keeping up with your electric DS project, are you going to/ have you posted it somewhere ?

 

[DoubleChevron]

Andy N, very keen on keeping up with your electric DS project, are you going to/ have you posted it somewhere ?

Can you imagine how smooth an electric DS would be .... .and silent .... and vibration free. You'd only want a little motor with maybe 150hp .... a few hundred Nm ..... nothing at all crazy.

 

[Andy N]

you would never destroy an SM by fitting an electric motor. Take a car that's lasted 50years and put a battery in it that'll last maybe 8 years. this makes zero sense given the tiny milage they would do in that time (the maserati would have probably only needed a handful of oil changes .. given the limited milage .... rather than a $20,000++++ battery replacement...... ).

lets not mention absolutley decimating its value .... it would pretty much become a parts car unless the original motor could be found and refitted without extensive rebuilding of the cars struture.

I wouldn’t even hesitate if I found an SM in good shape with a broken engine, and the will to carry through. It’s a huge amount of work however so unlikely, but someone will.
I’ve heard all the tired arguments about batteries that seem to be based on some less than adequate technology used years ago. It seems to me quite unfair for the quality of work these restomod firms are presenting, by using current tech. The Hyper 9 motor is the same basic design as what Tesla started putting in the Model 3 and Y. Incredible efficiency using internal fixed permanent magnets at over 94%, the heat loss is so minimal it doesn’t even have a fan and is sealed so well you can pressure wash the casing.

It’s a convenient lie to say the batteries are going to last 8 years and then be junk. That hasn’t been the experience with quality cells managed with sophisticated BMS and charging systems. These aren’t Nissan Leaf crappy pouch cells we’re using anymore with little to no cell level balancing and protection. In the 5 years the 10 Tesla modules have powered the SCU Kombi, there’s been no noticeable loss in capacity. The aerodynamics still continue to drag the range down spectacularly at highway speeds.(There’s even a 40km loss of range in the Tesla model y compared to the model 3 due to the extra height of the small suv shape over the low sedan, however both very slippery).

To say you just need a few oil changes in the 8 years of SM ownership sounds like a fairytale to me, I’ve owned over 20 Citroëns of many different types and they all need maintenance pretty much all the time. I’m talking about an SM with a broken engine and little chance of recovery as a basis for electric. The cost of restoring a broken SM Maserati engine would probably compare to the fairly low cost of batteries. $20k isn’t much for a battery pack that if well-managed could last a couple of decades or more and give a very usable range up to 400km or so. And well before the State of health declines (battery of owner?), there will be battery tech that would no doubt be more energy dense in a smaller package, and incredibly stable and cheap.

And the myth about declining values? What about the photo above your post? What’s the difference between the SM’s used in the modification of Jerry Hathaway’s vehicles and any other modification, including electric? It seems crazy to me to only approve of a classic modification only if it includes good old piston engine tech. It’s as if electric motors and batteries are a conspiracy to take away us men’s power over fire. I have no problem with a very small number of classic cars languishing in sheds never getting a chance to be used and appreciated…having a chance to get on the road and actually be used. And a word on value, the Kombi was valued at $25k pre-conversion and then insured for $100k post-conversion. Similar with the Porsche, electrifying a classic if done well seems to add quite alot of value, but only to the right buyer, as with any major modification. An SM with a Tesla drive unit, battery pack and system of supporting components would be an incredible thing and would come at quite a cost. Not including any restoration work, the conversion would start at circa $100k.

you would never destroy an SM by fitting an electric motor. Take a car that's lasted 50years and put a battery in it that'll last maybe 8 years. this makes zero sense given the tiny milage they would do in that time (the maserati would have probably only needed a handful of oil changes .. given the limited milage .... rather than a $20,000++++ battery replacement...... ).

lets not mention absolutley decimating its value .... it would pretty much become a parts car unless the original motor could be found and refitted without extensive rebuilding of the cars struture.

I would consider doing it if it was the right car and was missing the engine and other parts. Too many SM’s would’ve been scrapped as soon as the engine broke.
I agree I’m not fully in favour and would rather an excellent example in RH drive with 5-speed manual and euro spec lights, blasting around to the raw soundtrack of that light Italian V6.
But restoring the right SM to have a powerful electric drive unit doesn’t have to be a disaster if done well. A Tesla drive unit would offer 400-600hp and 300-400km range with CCS2 fast charging. It would truly be silent and deadly.
My experience with using second hand Tesla battery modules has been very positive, and I wouldn’t do this if they only lasted 8 years. With proper battery management systems to control cell balancing and charging, it’s much more sophisticated than your phone or laptop or even those first generation Nissan Leaf with less than adequate thermal regulation.
I doubt electrifying most classics will harm values, in fact I’ve seen an increase in values even beyond the cost of conversion. The insured value of the SCU Kombi quadrupled post conversion. But like any major modification you aren’t going to ever attract the affection of the ultra originalists.

 

[Andy N]

Andy N, very keen on keeping up with your electric DS project, are you going to/ have you posted it somewhere ?

I might start a thread….beyond this one which is looking like it’s gone way off track already! And I still am none the wiser to if a C5 pump is compatible with LHM or how I could ever make that idea work. I have a feeling I’ll just run a separate small DC motor to turn the 7 piston pump as soon as ignition goes a switched on. I’ve been told the power consumption would be 200w idling without load and 400w at peak pressure delivery.

 

[DoubleChevron]

I wouldn’t even hesitate if I found an SM in good shape with a broken engine, and the will to carry through. It’s a huge amount of work however so unlikely, but someone will.
I’ve heard all the tired arguments about batteries that seem to be based on some less than adequate technology used years ago. It seems to me quite unfair for the quality of work these restomod firms are presenting, by using current tech. The Hyper 9 motor is the same basic design as what Tesla started putting in the Model 3 and Y. Incredible efficiency using internal fixed permanent magnets at over 94%, the heat loss is so minimal it doesn’t even have a fan and is sealed so well you can pressure wash the casing.

It’s a convenient lie to say the batteries are going to last 8 years and then be junk. That hasn’t been the experience with quality cells managed with sophisticated BMS and charging systems. These aren’t Nissan Leaf crappy pouch cells we’re using anymore with little to no cell level balancing and protection. In the 5 years the 10 Tesla modules have powered the SCU Kombi, there’s been no noticeable loss in capacity. The aerodynamics still continue to drag the range down spectacularly at highway speeds.(There’s even a 40km loss of range in the Tesla model y compared to the model 3 due to the extra height of the small suv shape over the low sedan, however both very slippery).

To say you just need a few oil changes in the 8 years of SM ownership sounds like a fairytale to me, I’ve owned over 20 Citroëns of many different types and they all need maintenance pretty much all the time. I’m talking about an SM with a broken engine and little chance of recovery as a basis for electric. The cost of restoring a broken SM Maserati engine would probably compare to the fairly low cost of batteries. $20k isn’t much for a battery pack that if well-managed could last a couple of decades or more and give a very usable range up to 400km or so. And well before the State of health declines (battery of owner?), there will be battery tech that would no doubt be more energy dense in a smaller package, and incredibly stable and cheap.

And the myth about declining values? What about the photo above your post? What’s the difference between the SM’s used in the modification of Jerry Hathaway’s vehicles and any other modification, including electric? It seems crazy to me to only approve of a classic modification only if it includes good old piston engine tech. It’s as if electric motors and batteries are a conspiracy to take away us men’s power over fire. I have no problem with a very small number of classic cars languishing in sheds never getting a chance to be used and appreciated…having a chance to get on the road and actually be used. And a word on value, the Kombi was valued at $25k pre-conversion and then insured for $100k post-conversion. Similar with the Porsche, electrifying a classic if done well seems to add quite alot of value, but only to the right buyer, as with any major modification. An SM with a Tesla drive unit, battery pack and system of supporting components would be an incredible thing and would come at quite a cost. Not including any restoration work, the conversion would start at circa $100k.

I would consider doing it if it was the right car and was missing the engine and other parts. Too many SM’s would’ve been scrapped as soon as the engine broke.
I agree I’m not fully in favour and would rather an excellent example in RH drive with 5-speed manual and euro spec lights, blasting around to the raw soundtrack of that light Italian V6.
But restoring the right SM to have a powerful electric drive unit doesn’t have to be a disaster if done well. A Tesla drive unit would offer 400-600hp and 300-400km range with CCS2 fast charging. It would truly be silent and deadly.
My experience with using second hand Tesla battery modules has been very positive, and I wouldn’t do this if they only lasted 8 years. With proper battery management systems to control cell balancing and charging, it’s much more sophisticated than your phone or laptop or even those first generation Nissan Leaf with less than adequate thermal regulation.
I doubt electrifying most classics will harm values, in fact I’ve seen an increase in values even beyond the cost of conversion. The insured value of the SCU Kombi quadrupled post conversion. But like any major modification you aren’t going to ever attract the affection of the ultra originalists.

Nah, don't see it. have a look at that tesla battery he removed from a wrecked car on questionable garage. You could clearly see every single battery module already had leaking cells. For a daily driver that you might use for 5-8 years the throw away ... yeah ..... For a classic car .... Not me .... Not ever Though I must admit I like the idea of one in a DS. But if I could find a modern ICE engine that would fit, that would be able a million times more preferable

I just don't buy the whole electric caper. Though it is very interesting. Certainly it would be a fascinating project.

 

[DoubleChevron]

I might start a thread….beyond this one which is looking like it’s gone way off track already! And I still am none the wiser to if a C5 pump is compatible with LHM or how I could ever make that idea work. I have a feeling I’ll just run a separate small DC motor to turn the 7 piston pump as soon as ignition goes a switched on. I’ve been told the power consumption would be 200w idling without load and 400w at peak pressure delivery.

to use the mechanical pump. its a BIG load. I'd be guestimating several hp .... certainly more than 400w its not a contant load though, the pump will often be just be circulating fluid back to the tank under no pressure. this would take little to no power

 

[keepsmiling]

Nah, don't see it. have a look at that tesla battery he removed from a wrecked car on questionable garage. You could clearly see every single battery module already had leaking cells. For a daily driver that you might use for 5-8 years the throw away ... yeah ..... For a classic car .... Not me .... Not ever Though I must admit I like the idea of one in a DS. But if I could find a modern ICE engine that would fit, that would be able a million times more preferable

I just don't buy the whole electric caper. Though it is very interesting. Certainly it would be a fascinating project.

Lot of misconceptions about the battery not lasting, the industry believes the battery lasts longer than the car.

Tesla has lots of real-world data on all their models, even going back to the original Model S from 2015'ish. There is a youtube video of Tesla battery data logs, iirc the batteries degrade about 10% in the first couple years then stay there.

 

[Andy N]

Nah, don't see it. have a look at that tesla battery he removed from a wrecked car on questionable garage. You could clearly see every single battery module already had leaking cells. For a daily driver that you might use for 5-8 years the throw away ... yeah ..... For a classic car .... Not me .... Not ever Though I must admit I like the idea of one in a DS. But if I could find a modern ICE engine that would fit, that would be able a million times more preferable

I just don't buy the whole electric caper. Though it is very interesting. Certainly it would be a fascinating project.

I haven’t seen that “questionable” episode so I can’t comment on what the reasons were for the leaking cells, it just hasn’t been my experience. I know there is an enthusiasm out there to discredit EV technology and that actually seems to appear stronger lately. But I’ve always been against that because I know how powerful the fossil fuel giants are, and having worked in the oil industry for a time, I’ve seen first hand the environmental destruction and the power of these companies to cover up their dirty business. They have no interest in giving up their vast reserves of wealth despite being perhaps first to understand the consequences of forcing the atmosphere (and oceans) with the byproducts of combusting these very energy dense fuels.

With all tech there are some outliers, and there are likely to be batteries that have failed, but out of the millions of cells out there in use, how common is it? Having said that, the first batch of Tesla modules I ever bought came from a wrecker in SA that didn’t have any experience in handling these batteries. There was a problem in that they didn’t fully clear the cooling channels and plug the cooling tubes. Some glycol came out during transport and ended up settling in the clear plastic casing (the modules aren’t sealed at all when taken out of the vehicle). There are 444 individual 18650 cells in a 5.3kWh module and two of the cells suffered corrosion damage to the fine links that are acoustically welded to the busbar matrix. Nothing could be soldered or glued to fix these two cell connects, yet it didn’t seem to affect the overall battery strength. 74 cells are paralleled in strings of 6, and it takes more damaged/disconnected cells probably to get a weak cell fault in the BMS. It would be possible to damage these batteries especially once removed from the Tesla management systems. But as I said, I’ve been very happy with them and so have most other EV conversion guys that use them. I expect to get at least 20 years out of these. And then when they are swapped out for something vastly better, they can be used in a stationary energy holding application like a Tesla power wall……probably for another 20 years after that!

Household level storage, release and charge is even gentler on lithium battery cells. And that’s why I believe in the tech because all these batteries on wheels if we do things in a really clever way, could create a solid and powerful mobile energy grid, storing and releasing when the grid needs it. It makes the daily runner an active piece of machinery. Instead of just sitting there it could be providing power when not in use, storing renewable energy at other times, while allowing full capacity for the user when required. This DS won’t be so smart that it will have V2G (vehicle to grid) capability just yet, but that’s where it’s heading. And keeping the precious petrol for our classics, not just wasting it out of the tailpipe of countless blobs of appliance-like things they call cars. That’s what it’s about to me, is get the millions of people sitting in traffic jams spewing out toxic fumes who have no clue what’s even under the bonnet into electric vehicles, make it affordable and create new ways and experiences of ownership where there are real incentives to share and make income. I’m already considering after the DS is back in the road as my every day car, getting rid of all my other fuel guzzling Citroens and if I need to go on a longer journey, sharing a ride or hiring an EV for the purpose. Ok except maybe my GS wagon…..I do love that car as it is even if I’ve been bathed in petrol, exhaust, oil, LHM, etc. way more than absolutely necessary. There’s something raw and magical about the GS flat four resonating out the stainless exhaust. And too that part of me that still loves to blast past a pious Prius or Tesla turd driver in something anti. They are annoying and turn a lot of people off but I still believe in the benefit of EV’s for the masses.

At this stage what else really is there? Go back to the horse or plod along pretending we’re ok to just keep burning shit and that petrol’s always going to flow cheaply, unaffected by global conditions between where it comes from to down under?

 

[Andy N]

to use the mechanical pump. its a BIG load. I'd be guestimating several hp .... certainly more than 400w its not a contant load though, the pump will often be just be circulating fluid back to the tank under no pressure. this would take little to no power

Yeah I agree with you Shane, the 500w motor would be under a huge load. Krzysztof said it does take about 2 minutes from cold to rise and reach regulator cut-off. He has it spinning at about 1000rpm by reducing voltage in the 24v motor to (I think) he said 16v.
The only time he said the steering goes heavy when you turn lock to lock fast and aggressively but in a reverse parking manoeuvre it’s got enough pressure to make a few turns.
I’m considering a brushless DC motor still 500w but stepping up the 12v supply to the full 24v the motor needs to spin at 2500rpm, and then putting the same pulley as on the engine camshaft end with dual belts onto the pump pulley. I calculated because the driving pulley has twice the diameter of the driven pulley it will reduce the turning of the pump to half the motor speed is that right? So I would be running the pump at 1250rpm at 24v.

 

[DoubleChevron]

Yeah I agree with you Shane, the 500w motor would be under a huge load. Krzysztof said it does take about 2 minutes from cold to rise and reach regulator cut-off. He has it spinning at about 1000rpm by reducing voltage in the 24v motor to (I think) he said 16v.
The only time he said the steering goes heavy when you turn lock to lock fast and aggressively but in a reverse parking manoeuvre it’s got enough pressure to make a few turns.
I’m considering a brushless DC motor still 500w but stepping up the 12v supply to the full 24v the motor needs to spin at 2500rpm, and then putting the same pulley as on the engine camshaft end with dual belts onto the pump pulley. I calculated because the driving pulley has twice the diameter of the driven pulley it will reduce the turning of the pump to half the motor speed is that right? So I would be running the pump at 1250rpm at 24v.

you can only try, it needs to be powerful enough to turn the pump at regulator cut out. you could play with pulley gearing until you get the maximum flow ... without overloading the electric motor.

 

[DoubleChevron]

I haven’t seen that “questionable” episode so I can’t comment on what the reasons were for the leaking cells, it just hasn’t been my experience. I know there is an enthusiasm out there to discredit EV technology and that actually seems to appear stronger lately. But I’ve always been against that because I know how powerful the fossil fuel giants are, and having worked in the oil industry for a time, I’ve seen first hand the environmental destruction and the power of these companies to cover up their dirty business. They have no interest in giving up their vast reserves of wealth despite being perhaps first to understand the consequences of forcing the atmosphere (and oceans) with the byproducts of combusting these very energy dense fuels.

With all tech there are some outliers, and there are likely to be batteries that have failed, but out of the millions of cells out there in use, how common is it? Having said that, the first batch of Tesla modules I ever bought came from a wrecker in SA that didn’t have any experience in handling these batteries. There was a problem in that they didn’t fully clear the cooling channels and plug the cooling tubes. Some glycol came out during transport and ended up settling in the clear plastic casing (the modules aren’t sealed at all when taken out of the vehicle). There are 444 individual 18650 cells in a 5.3kWh module and two of the cells suffered corrosion damage to the fine links that are acoustically welded to the busbar matrix. Nothing could be soldered or glued to fix these two cell connects, yet it didn’t seem to affect the overall battery strength. 74 cells are paralleled in strings of 6, and it takes more damaged/disconnected cells probably to get a weak cell fault in the BMS. It would be possible to damage these batteries especially once removed from the Tesla management systems. But as I said, I’ve been very happy with them and so have most other EV conversion guys that use them. I expect to get at least 20 years out of these. And then when they are swapped out for something vastly better, they can be used in a stationary energy holding application like a Tesla power wall……probably for another 20 years after that!

Household level storage, release and charge is even gentler on lithium battery cells. And that’s why I believe in the tech because all these batteries on wheels if we do things in a really clever way, could create a solid and powerful mobile energy grid, storing and releasing when the grid needs it. It makes the daily runner an active piece of machinery. Instead of just sitting there it could be providing power when not in use, storing renewable energy at other times, while allowing full capacity for the user when required. This DS won’t be so smart that it will have V2G (vehicle to grid) capability just yet, but that’s where it’s heading. And keeping the precious petrol for our classics, not just wasting it out of the tailpipe of countless blobs of appliance-like things they call cars. That’s what it’s about to me, is get the millions of people sitting in traffic jams spewing out toxic fumes who have no clue what’s even under the bonnet into electric vehicles, make it affordable and create new ways and experiences of ownership where there are real incentives to share and make income. I’m already considering after the DS is back in the road as my every day car, getting rid of all my other fuel guzzling Citroens and if I need to go on a longer journey, sharing a ride or hiring an EV for the purpose. Ok except maybe my GS wagon…..I do love that car as it is even if I’ve been bathed in petrol, exhaust, oil, LHM, etc. way more than absolutely necessary. There’s something raw and magical about the GS flat four resonating out the stainless exhaust. And too that part of me that still loves to blast past a pious Prius or Tesla turd driver in something anti. They are annoying and turn a lot of people off but I still believe in the benefit of EV’s for the masses.

At this stage what else really is there? Go back to the horse or plod along pretending we’re ok to just keep burning shit and that petrol’s always going to flow cheaply, unaffected by global conditions between where it comes from to down under?

yeah, lets not turn this into anther battery thread. go read the other ones if you want to get worked up about it .... I just look at the overall picture of these batteries and see little to no benefits over an ice vehicle from any perspecitve (including the environmental impact). I just hope we have a safe way of disposing the big dangerous batteries in the future.

lets talk the car and the conversion .... the interesting bit. not the endless back and forth of the crazyness of electric cars.

 

[Andy N]

you can only try, it needs to be powerful enough to turn the pump at regulator cut out. you could play with pulley gearing until you get the maximum flow ... without overloading the electric motor.

The pulley is massive on the end of the camshaft I just rediscovered! There's a motor manufacturer in Australia that appears to offer a 24v brushless DC motor with 750w peak at 1700 rpm. That might be a good match 1:1 with the same pulley size on pump and motor. The other benefit with brushless is using a smarter controller to vary speed, including at startup. It's common to give a bit of boot to help an old Cit rise faster at idle (without the pump exploding), so I'm happy with 1700rpm peak as that would relate to an engine speed of 3400rpm. It would probably go a bit slower under load pumping up from rest. I guess I just have to pick the right motor for the job and then play around with speeds and whether I leave it idling, or fit a pressure switch so it only comes on when required.