Dry Sump XU9J4
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Thread: Dry Sump XU9J4

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Default Dry Sump XU9J4

    Today my new sump turned up. This unit is destined for my race engine, the rest of the kit is already set up and proven over multiple events in the 405.

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    The pump has 2 x scavange stages to pump back to tank and one pressure stage. The oil filter cover/seal plate and nipple allows the filter and cooler to be remote mounted. The volume of oil I now have in the system removes the need to have a cooler on board at all. Complete including hoses, I carry about 9 litres overall. Checking oil at the end of a full noise session has never shown more than 80C. I have the original oil temperature sender mounted in the oil reservoir and it has never shown more than 1/2 scale on the dash instrument.

    The hoses I am using are quite a bit heavier than they could be, but I worked with materials I had readily available. If I ever go the next stage with car development, I could replace the heave hydraulic fittings and hoses with Aeroquip light weight hose and aluminium AN fittings. But in total there would be well over $1000 in bits to do so.

    The only thing I haven't done on the new engine is sort out a vacuum regulator. Guys that run dry sumps on sprint cars etc, all run a slight negative pressure in their crank case controlled by a vacuum regulator. This pulls air in through a breather, often via the oil reservoir. I have my crank and head breathers running back to the oil reservoir with an overflow catch can and breather mounted in the boot beside the oil tank.

    All being well, the new engine will be together and in the car in the next month or so.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dry Sump XU9J4-pict0001.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-pict0003.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-pict0004.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-pict0002.jpg  
    Last edited by racing405; 29th May 2012 at 07:04 PM. Reason: ADD PICS\
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Default Pics of sump.

    Having a lot of trouble accessing the manage attachments tab - not certain where the problem is, but will try and get some pics up shortly.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! chez00's Avatar
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    Nice, keen to see the set-up.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
    2001 406 Monaco 5sp V6

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Got the photos added, don't know what the problem was last night.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    I've got a horn!
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    So I got the sump fitted up the other night and there appears to be an error in where the mounting holes for the pump were drilled and tapped. When fitted, the drive belt is slack.

    The best suggestion the supplier could come up with was to whack a couple of m6 washers under the pump at each mounting point.

    Have had a bit of a dust up with them since they made that suggestion and tonight I have machined up a shim to get the belt tension right and retain a decent connection to the mounts. Can't believe that they would suggest a couple of washers as spacers and leave 1/3 of the original mounting points hanging in space.

    Anyway, now happy with belt tension and the whole unit is set to go. I'll take some pics tomorrow in the daylight and post some time later in the day.

    Should be ready to go in the car at the end of the month.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Wouldnlove to see photos, we are about to do the same, where didnyou mount the tank and some info on how you plumbed it would be good.


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    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Ok, I'll try and give a short summary of the install.

    Bear in mind, the system has been changed a few times over the past 2 years, and I am now pretty happy with it - but not suited to a daily driver.

    The reservoir is mounted in the boot - along with the final breather tank and battery. I have also installed a high flow 3/4" hydraulic spin on filter in the boot too.

    From the tank to the pump I have used 3/4" two wire hydrauilc hose - this is much heavier than say speedflow oil hose, but I have workid with what I had available. The single 3/4" suction line runs via a bulkhead fitting to the engine bay and from there a short loop to the suction side of the pump.

    Oil pressure lines from the pump are 1/2" stainless braided lines - these run up to a remote oil filter housing where I use a Z9 element. The second braided stainless line runs from the filter down to the oil port on the block.

    Within the sump there are 2 gauze strainers each with their own return line and pump stage. These are only 1/2" lines between the sump and pump. On the discharge side of the pump, the 2 scavenge stages have a common line back to tank, and I have used another 3/4" two sire hydraulic hose back to the boot - via the hydraulic 40 micron filter back to the tank.

    If I ever re-run the lines, at least I have the hoses laid out properly so all I need to do is run light weight hoses with aluminium AN fittings rather than the steel hydraulic units.

    The pump has it's own pressure regulating valve. You can adjust this up to give you the oil pressure you want. I run mine down around 40 PSI at idle - gives around 80 at full speed. I have never seen the oil pressure fluctuate more than a few PSI at any engine speed. This has totally eliminated any oil surge problems that exist with the original design. I also estimate it has given me a 5kw of lost power back.

    If you run the same drive arrangement as I do, you will probably find you need to make some nice smooth brackets to hold the coolant lines up out of the road to ensure they cannot contact the new drive pulley no matter what the engine is doing.

    I have been beating the brains out of this set up for the past couple of years and getting the car to go faster and faster all the time. I have had a couple of pretty fast off track excursions and it has never looked like doing and damage to the pump / drive / hoses.

    A couple of other notes about my car - from the photos you will see I run just about as much tyre under my rear guards as possible. At the front, I have a 30mm spacer and an extra couple of degrees of camber and a half a degree of castor. For spark, you will see I run LS1 coils fired by a Haltech sprint 500 ECU. Would you believe that the spark leads to fit this set up are from a series 2 AU Falcon, and are just about the cheapest leads you will find at your local Autobarn.

    I have also thrown in a couple of pics of the new sump on my new engine. I haven't cleaned up the excess sealant from around the bolt holes and sump yet, but I'm pretty happy that it has turned up pretty well. As per earlier thread, I had to machine up a shim to space the pump and get the belt tension right. I also took the opportunity to helicoil the mounting holes - they are only 6mm and always makes me nervous in aluminium.

    I actually had a call from the sales manager at Pace Products last night because he knew I was pretty unhappy about the suggestion that I just use a couple of washers as spacers for the pump. He is looking at possibly adding shims to the kit...

    Let me know how you get on.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dry Sump XU9J4-boot.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-filter.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-return.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-right-rear.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-front-right.jpg   Dry Sump XU9J4-coils.jpg  

    Dry Sump XU9J4-new-sump.jpg  
    Last edited by racing405; 9th June 2012 at 06:56 PM. Reason: add photos
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Nice work. A couple of things however. Extra weight should be forward of the rear wheels centre line, #1 cylinder is closest to the flywheel and SpeedFlow prices are a rip off. I've been buying braided hose and fittings from Summit. Half the price, even including postage.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    He he, gotcha on the coil numbering. Since the leads are off an AU falcon, to get them to lay nicely with the lengths available, I have the coil orientation inverted from the cylinder numbering.

    I've actually used no SpeedFlow parts, but that big sticker came in the box with my Velo race seats - and couldn't bring myself to throw it out. I do a lot of work with a local hydraulic shop and all my parts have been sourced from them - included the stainless braided lines for the remote filter. All the other bits are on re-usable fitings, not swaged hoses.

    I started out with the oil can behind the passengers seat - but there was no sensible way to comply with CAMS regs for hot fluid in the passenger space in that set up. When moved to the boot - it had to go at the back, far too hard to maintain if it is up behind the back seat. Even with it in the boot, I had to seal the boot off and I've used 0.9mm aluminium and fire proof mastic sealant.

    Less than perfect, but since I try to do things on the cheap and in a manner that makes life easy, it's not a bad compromise.
    Last edited by racing405; 10th June 2012 at 02:30 PM. Reason: spelling
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Where did you find the CAMS regs on fluids in the cabin?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    In the CAMS 2012 manual of motor sport - schedule A, point 12...
    "have any container within the cockpit which can hold more than 500ml of hot liquid (other than a series heater core) enclosed in a sealed compartment".

    I looked at a couple of ways to achieve this, but everything I cam up with was either going to be expensive or heavy. That's why the tank ended up where it is.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Do Pace offer any advice on pre-priming the system to get oil pressure prior to start up? I've heard that some remove the drive belt & run the pump on a drill or suitable drive until oil pressure is obtained.

    Also, do you retain the original oil pump crank sprocket, or is their a spacer provided to replace it?
    405 Mi16 2.2 litre race car for sale.
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/car...-car-sale.html
    https://www.my105.com/ListingDetails...d/518/id/22164


    Lap times- Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    If I have drained the oil system down for any reason, I take the belt off and run the pump on a drill until it's primed and made pressure. But as long as it is not disturbed, it makes pressure as soon as the engine is running.

    There is no spacer provided in the kit, so you retain the original oil pump drive sprocket - the upside is that you can drop the sump out from under the car, cut the chain, remove the pump and fit the new sump all without removing the engine - should you choose to.

    The only change I have made to the original suppliers set up is to drill tap and recoil the original bolt holes to make them more durable. I've actually lost a bolt out of the pump during a race weekend and found that the original thread was badly deteriorated - could have been my fault by over-tightening when I fitted it up - much less chance of that now.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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