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Thread: Oil selection

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Oil selection

    Took my 205 out on the track again this weekend and started having some oil issues again. Last time I went out with fresh 5w40 Synthetic and had no problems. This time I was using the same sump full of oil (done maybe 2000 km since last track day) and was dropping oil pressure in the corners.

    Am I using oil that's too thin?

    Here's some footage. I'm second at the start of the clip (still following the pace car), then see me limping home at the end with everyone flying by......sniff

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    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    You're always going to get variable oil pressure in a wet sump system during cornering. How much it drops depends on variables such as baffling, oil viscosity, slicks etc. Then you need to assess what's an acceptable drop in pressure. Only with a dry sump will you get constant oil pressure.

    In addition to the pressure gauge, I have a falling switch set to 25 psi, which lights up the STOP light etc. if the pressure drops to that level. I've never seen it come on and never want to. I should probably set it at 30psi, as that's probably my acceptable minimum.

    As for oil type, race oils are normally 50 or even 60.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Well I had new tyres which was helping an increase of speed in the corners. My oil pressure was well below 10 Psi and at one stage I'm sure I heard the dreaded no oil squeel.

    When you say oil should be 50 - 60, you are talking the last number in the viscosity rating? So I should be using 10w50 ?
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    10psi is not good. Something is very wrong. Was it a left hander? I suggest you pull off the sump and investigate. I only see 25psi occasionally when hot at idle (1250rpm). Has the oil pressure returned to normal?

    Yes, something like 15W-50, etc.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post

    Took my 205 out on the track again this weekend and started having some oil issues again ... was dropping oil pressure in the corners.
    Have you considered using an Oil Accumulator?

    http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...ors/index.html

    Sorry for the crap link (have abandoned google) but these might be worth your further research?

    A mate fitted one to his 8.4 litre (not kidding!) Valiant Charger and swears by it, and with instant-pressure cold-start benefits too.

    Not terribly expensive (in the greater scheme of things) and can be a very effective solution for racing & high-performance etc.

  6. #6
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    Actually it was a right hander - eastern loop at Lakeside. Long right hander, off camber and up hill.

    I have to cut a thread and mount the temp sender again anyway so I will open it up and have a look again. I'm putting it down to oil being to thin. I will change to a 50 - 60 whan I do this work and try again next month.
    Last edited by PugMonkey; 1st May 2012 at 11:14 AM.
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    Default oil surge

    Hi,
    Something gone badly wrong with something that you put on here in the last post. Perhaps the moderator should remove it.

    To the subject in hand. There is a bit of knowledge around, in books etc about this subject. The oil surges to one side and it may expose the oil pickup. Then the pump sucks air and the oil pressure drops. This is a disaster if it happens for any time or indeed often, eg on every corner. Particularly if you have your foot to the floor and plenty of revs on board as you probably have.

    How to prevent this.The easy way is to put extra oil in for the day. An extra liter helps if there is space to accomodate it with no churning. Use good oil and high viscosity helps. Baffle the sump to resist the oil surge. There are ideas out there to do this. People have been doing it for years with good success. The ultimate way may be to dry sump it but this is not usually necessary and is a lot of work. Having an accumulator to store oil pressure to feed the low times is another way. I have had no problems with a baffled sump in times past. Read a few books and a days work.

    Jaahn

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    COL
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    Default Hyroglifics

    Hi Pugs

    Can we have post #6 in English. Your post is in some sort of code.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Sorry 'bout the post - Looks like I wrote it in Peekineese. Fixed now.

    Jaahn,
    Got all that info on board thank you. I have a baffled sump with pick up extention and windage tray so alls good there - thus the suprise of dropping pressure again. The oil I used was Synpower 5w40. This is the first time I have tried Sunthetic so for the next track day I will change it to a thicker oil.
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    Default Oils ain't oils

    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post
    Well I had new tyres which was helping an increase of speed in the corners. My oil pressure was well below 10 Psi and at one stage I'm sure I heard the dreaded no oil squeel.

    When you say oil should be 50 - 60, you are talking the last number in the viscosity rating? So I should be using 10w50 ?
    Hi,
    The modern trend to lower viscosity oils eg x-40 or even x-30 is driven by the need for better fuel mileage to a large degree. The thinner oils have less drag inside the engine. Also the other side of the world is a lot cooler most times and the thinner oil flows better in the cold.
    However out here in Gods country with the sun shining and especially when the engine is hot and working(racing) the thin oil looks a bit,, well,, thin.
    The thicker oil 'sticks' better so it hangs on better if the pressure falls. A good quality synthetic oil like a 5-w50 is good. Equal to a thiner oil when cold but when hot equal to a 50. I always found Mobil 1 a good oil and still use it in my road car. Cheaper now than it was. There are probably others that are OK too.

    The baffles in the sump. There needs to be a bit of thought about how these are placed to best advantage. Just baffles are not the answer.
    Jaahn
    jaahn

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I buy Mobil 1 from here:

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mobil-1-E...item27afd80efd

    He also has 1 quart bottles.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    i used penrite extra 10 (15w60) i switched to 10w50 because i was up to the challenge of finding some new oil leaks
    The wrong oil is better than no oil at all.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nota View Post
    Have you considered using an Oil Accumulator?
    I have. Just finishing the installation now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Oil selection-accumulator3.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post
    The oil I used was Synpower 5w40.
    There's part of your problem. Elf, Shell, Valvoline, Royal Purple, Mobil all produce very similar oil pressures. Penrite only produces 3/4 the oil pressure that the others produce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post
    Sorry 'bout the post - Looks like I wrote it in Peekineese. Fixed now.

    Jaahn,
    Got all that info on board thank you. I have a baffled sump with pick up extention and windage tray so alls good there - thus the suprise of dropping pressure again. The oil I used was Synpower 5w40. This is the first time I have tried Sunthetic so for the next track day I will change it to a thicker oil.
    My dyno guy (who prepares a lot of race engines) recommends Fuchs Formula 60 (25W 60, I think). In one case a Torana L34 V8 dumped its oil on a special stage of Targa Tasmania, completed the stage, plugged engine, oiled up & continued on without damage. Residual oil film, you see.

    cheers! Peter

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