what front springs in a gti6 205
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
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    Default what front springs in a gti6 205

    been trolling through web pages and im more confused than ever now. does putting the xu10 motor in a 205 affect the ride height or handling? do i need to compensate for the extra weight over the wheels in some way? in the end i want the car to sit around 30mm lower in the front and close to std, maybe slightly lower in the rear and try and retain the std handling.

    i need to replace my front struts as the are stuffed. i have some good gti6 shocks to go on the rear and the beam will be rebuilt std spec with possibly a mount kit from adrian . can anyone point me in the right direction for a setup in the front

    its not going to see any trackwork, i just want a nice baseline setup to get me by, then i can improve it later if need be.

    at this stage im thinking billies of some sort with either reset std springs or Eibachs? approx 30mm lower. the extra 20lb/" rate over the std springs in the eibachs might compensate for the xu10 weight and balance out things better? not sure which bilstiens yet? any suggestions

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Ever hit a zubat with a car lowered 30mm?

    MAKE THAT A "WOMBAT"!!!!!!

    " in the end i want the car to sit around 30mm lower in the front and close to std,"

    How can you have the car sit 30mm lower and it still be close to standard?

    The xu10 motor weighs 60kg more than the aluminium block motors.
    I did not notice any difference in handling or car height with my xu10 motor fitted.

    I would (I know I am an old fart) consider renewing your front suspension with new standard Pug suspension (probably not as expensive as your intentions).
    I have not found any problems driving on the roads with standard suspension.
    I would love to fit new standard suspension to mine (just can't justify it).

    How many people have driven a 205 Gti with new standard suspension? (My 1st 205 Gti only had 30k km on it when I bought it and 50k when I sold it) It handled bloody wonderful (I thought).
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  3. #3
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    someone is selling Eibach 30mm lower springs for a 205 right now in the for sale section. freaky, huh?

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91491

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    The xu10 motor weighs 60kg more than the aluminium block motors.
    Of course as an engineer you have data to support your theory? My scales say only 18Kg. That's why there was no difference in handling. 60Kg would be like sticking your girlfriend on the bonnet.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    personally, i can recommend sticking your girlfriend on the bonnet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Of course as an engineer you have data to support your theory? My scales say only 18Kg. That's why there was no difference in handling. 60Kg would be like sticking your girlfriend on the bonnet.
    Yes, not 60kg but a bit more than 18kg over the orginal 8 valve I would have thought with the twin cam head, bigger clutch, heavier engine mounts etc.
    I'll be interested to see how this goes, I bought a parts GTi6 for my daughter's car and can see a spare XU10J4RS in the future! Trouble is the parts car is way too good to wreck, we will try and keep it mobile while using bits off it for the time being.
    Graham

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
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    Default springs

    Maybe my bad english but if you read 30mm lower in front and slightly lower in rear but trying to keep rear std if it looks ok and matches front. Can you still buy genuine front struts? My concern was the weight but seems its not enough to be worried about.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    I've just finished fitting near new OE suspension on my car and all I can say is that the standard setup is fantastic.

    I did try brand new BOGE front struts with standard springs and GTI6 rears and they were firm, a little bouncy in the rear perhaps because of uprated damping to suit the weight of the 306. But not as good allround as the factory setup.

    By the way you can still buy new front struts but they are expensive. From memory something like $625 + GST EACH ! And I think rear shocks are now listed as GTI6 shocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    I've just finished fitting near new OE suspension on my car and all I can say is that the standard setup is fantastic.

    I did try brand new BOGE front struts with standard springs and GTI6 rears and they were firm, a little bouncy in the rear perhaps because of uprated damping to suit the weight of the 306. But not as good allround as the factory setup.

    By the way you can still buy new front struts but they are expensive. From memory something like $625 + GST EACH ! And I think rear shocks are now listed as GTI6 shocks.
    The OE shocks in my road Si are still working fine at 370000km.
    Rally car has Koni yellows in the front but OE GTi in the back, working well
    Graham

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
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    One of my Gti s is running some new looking sachs sport touring struts im tempted to try them with some reset springs and std rear setup. My other option is b4 or b6 bilstein in front with eibach 30mm lower springs and the gti6 sfhocks on rearjust to firm things up a bit.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by djvu205 View Post
    One of my Gti s is running some new looking sachs sport touring struts t.
    Tried them in an Si a few years ago, pretty choppy ride.
    Graham

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Weighty 205!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Of course as an engineer you have data to support your theory? My scales say only 18Kg. That's why there was no difference in handling. 60Kg would be like sticking your girlfriend on the bonnet.

    All the published weight figures that I can find for a late 205 GTi say that they weigh 940Kg. (Rego papers say 920kg)

    March 2009 I put my 205 over a weigh bridge 1000kg! I witnessed the weigh bridge balance/calibrate the bridge, 0.000kg before the car was on, and with the car on the bridge read exactly 1000kg (see weigh bridge certificate below). Yes I was out of the car.

    I assumed that if I simply deducted the published weight of the car from the weigh bridge reading then the only difference could be the weight of the cast iron block.

    My car was fitted with the xu10 motor and the A/C, the spare wheel was installed and the fuel tank full .

    Please expand on where the apparent additional 60kg came from!! (Do bigger injectors weigh that much or could it be the additional cable ties fitted??).

    It does not concern me if I am incorrect, though I find it hard to believe that there is only 18kg difference between the aluminium and cast iron blocks. Aluminium's SG is approximately one third that of cast iron. Using your weight difference I estimate that the aluminium block weighs around only 9kg. Please note I have been wrong before.

    What were your measured block weights?

    Discussion ..........?

    PS My bonnet has enough dents in it now!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails what front springs in a gti6 205-dsc03369.jpg  
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by djvu205 View Post
    One of my Gti s is running some new looking sachs sport touring struts im tempted to try them with some reset springs and std rear setup. My other option is b4 or b6 bilstein in front with eibach 30mm lower springs and the gti6 sfhocks on rearjust to firm things up a bit.

    Your "other option" as stated above is perfecto. Forget Boge/Sachs/ Koni etc
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  14. #14
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    Hey Riggy

    The quaife diff adds a fair bit of weight, as does your reverse gear and the bracing.

    All the crap you cart around in the boot would weigh a tonne....
    Adrian Wuillemin

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Crap in boots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian William View Post
    Hey Ricky

    The quaife diff adds a fair bit of weight, as does your reverse gear and the bracing.

    All the crap you cart around in the boot would weigh a tonne....

    Forgot about the Quaife it probably weighs more than the cable ties.

    The crap in the boot is carted around as an insurance, if I keep it in there the car will not break down.

    Anyway the crap was not in the car when I weighed it, I told you I got out!
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  16. #16
    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
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    this topic always creates a great debate, std vs modified, geniune vs aftermarket etc. the way i see it no one uses std geniune parts because they are just to expensive, plus im not going to shop around for good secondhand geniune items and pay truckloads for them, only to probley find out they are stuffed also. if mine didnt need replacing i wouldnt do them. the first thing people say when setting up a car is make sure that its all in good condition! replace anything thats worn! so thats what im doing and not because someone else says its good to do that, but i want the car to be safe, handle well and feel tight.

    having said all that, for future reference if someone is going down the road of replacing the suspension due to component failure or what ever the reason, other than new OE parts, what is available thats worth putting in and keeping the cost real? the lowering part of it is purely for looks, i understand it may affect handling but its only a small amount not over the top.

    i have decided to purchase some oe replacement bilsteins for the front which are far cheaper than the geniune peugeot items and i will pay for any concequences that they come with. most likely the b4 ones, possibly the b6 ones when i work out the difference?

    on the rear i will stick with the secondhand stuff i have laying around or purchase new rears when i win tattsloto. i was quoted rears around 18 months ago, they where around $180 ea + from peugeot.

    as far as the lowering im looking at resetting std springs or eibachs 30mm lower on the front and adjusting the rear to suit if it needs it. i still think with even a slight increase in weight over the front wheels due to the xu10, that the eibachs, which claim to be around 20lbs/" more than the std spring, would do nicely especially with a 21mm or 22mm ARB on the rear. anyway thats my opion
    Last edited by djvu205; 26th August 2011 at 07:35 PM.

  17. #17
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    Get some nice bilstien shocks with eibach springs and be done with it. OEM feel awesome again old worn out stuff...

    You can still get the challenge spec stuff, and a few of the euro boys run them on their daily driver and love it. Others run a gravel spec insert as it's softer than the tarmac spec but is still firmer than OEM as far as I'm aware. (could be wrong.)

    cut down 306 24mm arb on my car is sooo sooo nice... even with the old crap suspension i had.

    Challenge Spec:
    Front: Group 'N' Front Bilstein strut's F4-V36-0547-H0
    Rear: Group 'N' dampers F4-B46-1038-H0

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
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    Default block weights

    found this and has some interesting info re weights

    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...howtopic=52614

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default 60kg!

    Quote Originally Posted by djvu205 View Post
    found this and has some interesting info re weights

    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...howtopic=52614


    I have the heaviest 205 in the world .

    The 60kg additional weight my car carries over an 8v, must be the 6kg Quaife the +19kg cast iron block over the aluminium block and the other 35kg must be the twin cam head, cam, valves, springs and sprocket????.

    I wish I had not fitted new rear discs yesterday it will be even heavier still now .

    There may also be something in the wet carpets mentioned in the link above, too. I dried my boot carpet out not long ago, it took a couple of days in the sun.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    I

    There may also be something in the wet carpets mentioned in the link above, too. I dried my boot carpet out not long ago, it took a couple of days in the sun.
    maybe the weightbridge scales are not as accurate as one assumes?

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