xu10 head removal + rebuild...
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Default xu10 head removal + rebuild...

    So Ive just picked my next project ( too many but read on )

    Its an XU10j4r from my newly acquired s16. Its got no compression on Cyc no 4 and so is a suspected timing belt issue.
    Ive started pulling it apart tonight and got as far as the inlet manifold. After removing it have discovered that its stuffed. Looks like its had a backfire of some sort and exploded. (see pic )

    Ive been racking my brains as to what possible damage may have been bee caused as Im yet to get the head off ( and someone has taken my Torx 55 bit to remove the bolts!! )

    Un measured air into the engine causing leaning etc? Burnt valves causing no compression?

    Anyway, I have a load of spares to repair it. But thought I would note that its already annoying working on the car as its not as simple as the 205... Always learning though so not really complaining...

    Hoping to get it off over the next couple of days

    Cam

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    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Eventually its going to have a rebuilt head and be back on the road. Its got a 88mm crank and 87mm pistons too 2.1l yea!
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Isn't it an XU10J4?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    yep my bad
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Davo81's Avatar
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    yay! this is what I like to see, as I'll be rebuilding my S16 soon enough!

  6. #6
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    Cool Cam thanks for sharing, im looking foward to learning from this
    205 GTi T16

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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    An update.... Grrrr
    So, after spending the last week or so getting all the bits and bobs out of the way to make room for a smooth head removal, I spent about 30 minutes all the way under the 306 removing the exhaust manifold to finally be able to get the breaker bar onto the Torx bolts in the head and to get it off to service.....

    Get the torch down on top of the bolt holes to be met with a rather frustrating surprise. There is a Mix of both female and male torx bolts. Surely this is not normal? The next thing has me worried. Two of the male torx bolts ( head bolts i guess ) have had their edges completely stripped off.
    Can any body help me with suggestions as to how to get these bolts out? Im at a loss as to how this is done. Drilling?

    Cam
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    An update.... Grrrr
    So, after spending the last week or so getting all the bits and bobs out of the way to make room for a smooth head removal, I spent about 30 minutes all the way under the 306 removing the exhaust manifold to finally be able to get the breaker bar onto the Torx bolts in the head and to get it off to service.....

    Get the torch down on top of the bolt holes to be met with a rather frustrating surprise. There is a Mix of both female and male torx bolts. Surely this is not normal? The next thing has me worried. Two of the male torx bolts ( head bolts i guess ) have had their edges completely stripped off.
    Can any body help me with suggestions as to how to get these bolts out? Im at a loss as to how this is done. Drilling?

    Cam
    By no means. Drilling will result in you scrapping the head.

    Try to undo first the headbolts that you can undo. Don't undo them too much, just get them started.

    Next, I would get a little dremel tool and grind off the stripped heads completely. This is going to be the work of a slave, but it will leave your head and block intact. Remember, the head and engine block are expensive, the dremel discs and headbolts are not. Hopefully after that you can take out the bolts with the intact heads and the head will come off leaving behind in the block the bolts with the ground heads. Find a good stud extractor (the kind that bites in the side of the bolt and is wound around with a square 1/2 inch drive) and use that to extract the stumps.

    This is the kind of extractor you need:

    http://www.justtools.com.au/prod2578.htm

    Do not play with heat and other brute force implements or you will distort everything beyond hope.

    Use plenty of WD40 because it can only help. At worst is not going to help much, but if it can creep in under the bolt head, it will and that will diminish the effort needed to take the headbolts off by a serious amount (the bolts that you can take off).

    I am not familiar with this block, but if the headbolts punch through at the bottom as they do on 205 GTI engines, squirt some WD40 over there and hope that it will work its way up on the thread, lubricating it.

    By no means try drilling, I am repeating this. Head bolts are hard steel, and you will not manage to drill them, the drill bit will break or deviate and drill into the head or the block. Do not drill.
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  9. #9
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    Default Removing head bolts...

    If you can get at the male Torx head bolt, try a good quality stud remover. If the top of the bolt is more than about 8mm high, this could be a workable solution.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Wow! So what you're saying is that the engine was assembled with both T55 AND E14 head bolts. Both are used in various Peugeot engines. I'd be asking two questions.

    1. Who was the last person to touch it? They probably rounded the heads. (give them a wide berth)

    2. Who built the engine in the first place? For the sake of $66 worth of head bolts, what a guru. (also give them a wide berth)

    The solution is to set the engine up in a radial arm drill and carefully drill the heads off with a 12+mm long shank drill. Duncan Fosters at Blacktown would be my recommendation.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    By no means. Drilling will result in you scrapping the head.

    Try to undo first the headbolts that you can undo. Don't undo them too much, just get them started.

    Next, I would get a little dremel tool and grind off the stripped heads completely. This is going to be the work of a slave, but it will leave your head and block intact. Remember, the head and engine block are expensive, the dremel discs and headbolts are not. Hopefully after that you can take out the bolts with the intact heads and the head will come off leaving behind in the block the bolts with the ground heads. Find a good stud extractor (the kind that bites in the side of the bolt and is wound around with a square 1/2 inch drive) and use that to extract the stumps.

    This is the kind of extractor you need:

    http://www.justtools.com.au/prod2578.htm

    Do not play with heat and other brute force implements or you will distort everything beyond hope.

    Use plenty of WD40 because it can only help. At worst is not going to help much, but if it can creep in under the bolt head, it will and that will diminish the effort needed to take the headbolts off by a serious amount (the bolts that you can take off).

    I am not familiar with this block, but if the headbolts punch through at the bottom as they do on 205 GTI engines, squirt some WD40 over there and hope that it will work its way up on the thread, lubricating it.

    By no means try drilling, I am repeating this. Head bolts are hard steel, and you will not manage to drill them, the drill bit will break or deviate and drill into the head or the block. Do not drill.

    Thanks for the great Info.

    As time is of the essence at the moment with moving the car the engine is in. Im also think about taking the whole motor to a machine shop ( a good one ) to have them remove the head with the correct machinery/tools. I would not have the patience ( at the moment ) or skills to get the job done correctly.

    The head has suspect bent valves and I do have a spare head ( complete ) that has been budget for if the current head is no good, so if it does get damaged it not the end of the world. What are you thoughts on that?

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    By no means try drilling, I am repeating this. Head bolts are hard steel, and you will not manage to drill them, the drill bit will break or deviate and drill into the head or the block. Do not drill.
    Not so. Peugeot head bolts can easily be drilled. You need to be accurate however, thus I suggested a radial arm drill. The bolt head is a long way down in the head. A hole approx. DIA23 x 100 deep. It's inaccessible with a die grinder/dremel. If you get the angle wrong, the bolt head will still be there and you'll never be able to remove it. I spent six months of my apprenticeship on a radial arm drill in a tool room. Believe me, I know how to drill holes.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Not so. Peugeot head bolts can easily be drilled. You need to be accurate however, thus I suggested a radial arm drill. The bolt head is a long way down in the head. A hole approx. DIA23 x 100 deep. It's inaccessible with a die grinder/dremel. If you get the angle wrong, the bolt head will still be there and you'll never be able to remove it. I spent six months of my apprenticeship on a radial arm drill in a tool room. Believe me, I know how to drill holes.
    was after 6 months if sweeping floors and then after drilling you went onto a lathe and spent 6 months doing foreign orders

    was my favourite part of using the colchester when i was doing my time as it was the foreign order lathe, none of this mundane crap that needed to be done for real jobs

    the drill was siberia in our machine shop
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    was after 6 months if sweeping floors and then after drilling you went onto a lathe and spent 6 months doing foreign orders
    or the broach...........

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! patpug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Thanks for the great Info.

    As time is of the essence at the moment with moving the car the engine is in. Im also think about taking the whole motor to a machine shop ( a good one ) to have them remove the head with the correct machinery/tools. I would not have the patience ( at the moment ) or skills to get the job done correctly.

    The head has suspect bent valves and I do have a spare head ( complete ) that has been budget for if the current head is no good, so if it does get damaged it not the end of the world. What are you thoughts on that?

    Cam
    Bad luck mate. I've had a dig around the garage in the mtns and can't find your torx bit or the long sockets. This might be a job for Marcus - give him a nail file and a come back in a few hours...
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Not so. Peugeot head bolts can easily be drilled. You need to be accurate however, thus I suggested a radial arm drill. The bolt head is a long way down in the head. A hole approx. DIA23 x 100 deep. It's inaccessible with a die grinder/dremel. If you get the angle wrong, the bolt head will still be there and you'll never be able to remove it. I spent six months of my apprenticeship on a radial arm drill in a tool room. Believe me, I know how to drill holes.

    I don't think the OP had this idea in mind, that's why I advised against drilling. Even so, depending on what it cost to have this done as you say, he might still change his mind and try to do the job himself.

    As for bolts, they may be easy to drill as you say in a machine shop but when you're doing it with tools from the hardware store, I am not so sure. Even then, the bolt is harder than the head so there is scope for the bit to go into the softer metal.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  17. #17
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    There's nothing like reviving an old thread. Went to start up today and BOOM. Wasn't game to kick it over again. Checked the timing belt and all good. Then I noticed a little fragment of plastic on the rocket cover and smelled it. Definitely freshly cracked! Did a little googling. Exploded inlet manifold. Took 20 mins to remove it - completely buggered at the bottom. Before I chuck my spare on, any valve or area I should clean before I do it to prevent the backfire again?

  18. #18
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    Did some cleaning and replaced. Up and blasting again.

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