Engine options for 205 project?
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    Default Engine options for 205 project?

    Hi guys,

    I used to own a 205, and I miss it dearly. It was a lot of fun. One of my projects in the future, will be sourcing a clean 205, restoring it and upping the power. It's a long way off, but something I've dreamed of for a long time.

    Out of curiosity, what engine options are there for say 170 - 200bhp+? Obviously there's the 8v and MI16 route, but what about something like a Duratec engine like in the caterhams? Could it be done?

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    What about a Civic/Integra Type R engine?

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    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    Hey Dom - Pugsley here.

    I know one guy who is putting a xantia turbo into the 205. As far as I fcan tell its the twin cam with a great base to build on as it's running the factory turbo. That plus a megasquirt would be the go to start with and build up from there.

    Otherwise full house Mi16! Powaaaaaaaar... as Clarkson would say

    Havent seen you at the euro meets?

    Moo
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    Decide on budget, usage and concept - daily driver? track car? fuel efficient? How much of the work will/can you do yourself? Standard management or aftermarket?

    Basically, any XU series engine will 'bolt in' with mods, but these are getting long in the tooth.

    High HP engines out of the box include the EW series from the 206, the GTi-6 engine and of course an updated Mi16. The EW12JRS (not sure if that's the number, the engine out of the 206 GTi-180) will give you 180bhp straight away, more with tuning.

    You could even fit a 3.0 V6 .. or look at the TU series of engines from the x07 series cars.

    Once you move away from the XU series engines you'll need different engine mounts fabricated and probably modified driveshafts, but these conversions have all been done before.

    TBH I wouldn't bother looking at including non-Peugeot engines when there are plenty of suitable candidate engines.

    My view is if you're serious about power and performance you may as well put in aftermarket management. A Haltech Sprint is ~$1,000 + labour. This gives you a significant amount of tuning options and allows you to get rid of all the crappy pipes and corroded and exposed wiring that is the norm for Jetronic and Motronic cars. And really, why would anyone bother with a de-tuned EMS and a distributor on a sports car in 2011? All the Jetronic and Motronic cars were detuned to run on crappy Aus fuel in the early 90s.

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    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    I'd avoid the early alloy block mi16 - they are getting old and honestly the weight savings isn't super.

    At min i would look at the gti-6 or look at making a larger displacement s16/late mi16 engine.

    Honda engines = new mounts and stuff but easy power. lots of cheap off the shelf parts. the 2.2 vtec engine = 200+hp out of the box.

    The EW series engine require mount fab work also from my understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post
    Havent seen you at the euro meets?
    Been overseas past 2 meets. Will definitely be there this next one though.

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    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
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    find the engine that suits you and leave it in that car and drive it! if xu's are getting long in the tooth the cars arent far behind. dont get me wrong i love driving 205'S but if you going for more power and fitting a later model engine option, then maybe go for a later model car. it would probley work out cheaper and be less headaches

    if you fully cashed up and iching to do something different go for it. i do wonder sometimes why i pull 10 year old parts of a car and put it on something thats 20 years old only to either sell it or be dissapointed with some other aspect of the car. in a 205's case the interior! just my

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    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    easy strip it down and have no interior...

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    Fellow Frogger! spar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dombou View Post
    What about a Civic/Integra Type R engine?
    so what's the cost of a type r motor in aus, are they a cheap import or sought after?

    200hp of reliable N/A engine in a 205 would be noice mate. I was checking out a 205 honda transplant on 205 drivers the other day and the variable valve timing was simple and elegant.

    I dont know but am seeing some reliability concerns of the pug vvt engines so kinda put off them, especially as they are only 15hp more than a gti6.

    However wouldn't gti6 engines be getting a bit long in the tooth now without a rebuild, in which case the options open up considerably?

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    This is alot of power for a 205.

    Why do want this much? How well can you drive a 205? Any Peugeot motor you use (8V, Mi16 or GTi6) should be getting rebuilt before it goes into a 205.

    170 - 200hp is a lot. You should try and find someone who has a warmed up 205 and ask them nicely to take you for a spin.

    I think if it we're me, I would still go for a hot 8V or a turbo 8V. Have a look in my build thread.


    Chris

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    Haha relax guys. This thread was purely hypothetical. In a few years when I've got the opportunity to build a weekend car, I'd love to do a 205. It's purely a dream and I thought I'd ask what sort of engines I could fill my hypothetical car with

    Good suggestions too, and shed some light on a few things I hadn't thought of.

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    Fellow Frogger! spar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjB8V View Post
    This is alot of power for a 205.

    Why do want this much? How well can you drive a 205? Any Peugeot motor you use (8V, Mi16 or GTi6) should be getting rebuilt before it goes into a 205.

    170 - 200hp is a lot. You should try and find someone who has a warmed up 205 and ask them nicely to take you for a spin.

    I think if it we're me, I would still go for a hot 8V or a turbo 8V. Have a look in my build thread.


    Chris
    i'm pretty sure i can say that i am a crap driver - i have only owned bikes since 1991 before my 205 a couple of years back.

    perhaps it's a lack of subtlety, perhaps it's a long term addiction to adrenaline but tbh even with 200hp a 205 is seriously slower than any sports bike and has at least enough protection to take out a small sapling, something on a bike could leave you paralysed or dead.

    i have a defective 8v, decked, 3 cut valves, cam and even given its prob 30hp down on what it could be (when it's running cleanly) it isn't any, nor will be any kind of powerhouse.

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    Fellow Frogger! spar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dombou View Post
    Haha relax guys. This thread was purely hypothetical.
    No please dont relax, give me suggestions, it's not hypothetical for me !!

    I have a nicely rebuilt chassis and need to remove "the bastard" harness and ECU. I figure if i'm going a haltech and rewire i might as well have some engine options.

    I'm reasonably mechanically competent, i have refreshed several cars in my distant past, i tend to think it would be interesting (although my wife i am sure would prefer me to keep renovating...) to build up an engine to a decent but reliable spec.

    Since a gti-6's are rare and fairly serious cash (guessing 3.5-5k) what would be the best option?

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    $2-2.5k for low km EW series engines, with gearbox.

    $4k to rebuild an XU (properly).

    No brainer!

    Fabricating mounts isn't too hard/expensive if you know someone with the skills. New ECU you replace the entire engine loom and if you have the time, learn a bit about the engine. I like taking things apart.

    Guys in Europe are running big HP on the TU series, 1.6l. Or go rally style.

    I guess I just like older style cars - they feel different - even a 'modernised' 205 is raw in the way cars with power everything and accessories aren't. 205GTi is a lifestyle choice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DjB8V View Post
    This is alot of power for a 205.

    Why do want this much? How well can you drive a 205? Any Peugeot motor you use (8V, Mi16 or GTi6) should be getting rebuilt before it goes into a 205.

    170 - 200hp is a lot. You should try and find someone who has a warmed up 205 and ask them nicely to take you for a spin.

    I think if it we're me, I would still go for a hot 8V or a turbo 8V. Have a look in my build thread.


    Chris
    Agreed, I am running my 8V UK 130 hp engined 205 in its first rally on Saturday.
    Even with all my rally experience over many years I am getting pretty nervous of the speed this car will get to on the fast gravel roads in the area.
    I am certainly not looking for any more power.
    This car feels a lot more responsive than a 306 GTi6.
    Graham

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    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    I've got the MI16 in my 205, it's been dyno'd at 130hp at the wheels and it's slow... I'll be looking for a fair bit more power when i've got a few other things sorted on the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTDVL View Post
    I've got the MI16 in my 205, it's been dyno'd at 130hp at the wheels and it's slow... I'll be looking for a fair bit more power when i've got a few other things sorted on the car.
    Every 16 valve I've driven feels slow, seems you have to have your foot on the floor to get the advertised/desired performance.
    Graham

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    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    Yeah, the old 205 GT rev'd a lot freer than the mi16 or the s16 i had, admittedly i had done a fair bit of work to it - skimmed head, ported, polished, etc...

    I think thats the difference in how they feel slower, is that the 8v stuff rev'd a lot better/freer so it seamed quicker - but in actual pace they aren't.

    Unfortunately the classes i race in are 1.6 - 2.2ltr so people are grabbing the 2.2 vtec and slapping them in civic's and crx's which make for some very potent cars to compete against. I'll defiantly be on the hunt for 160+hp at the wheels min with a goal of 180 - 200hp at the wheels just to be competitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by four_plus_two View Post
    I guess I just like older style cars - they feel different - even a 'modernised' 205 is raw in the way cars with power everything and accessories aren't. 205GTi is a lifestyle choice!
    Bingo.

    I reckon 200hp in a 900kg body (i.e. 222bhp/tonne) would be pretty tasty. Power shouldn't be a huge issue with semi slicks and a peaky/linear curve.

    I reckon it'd be a dream to drive.

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    Fellow Frogger! spar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four_plus_two View Post
    $2-2.5k for low km EW series engines, with gearbox.

    $4k to rebuild an XU (properly).
    Do you mean the ew10-j4s or a cooking 140hp ew10?

    $4k to rebuild - do you mean getting someone else to rebuild it?

    If you were to say grab an alloy mi16 (i did listen to the "the weight saving isnt fantastic" but it's more where it is to me - the 205 already feels like it only has 2 wheels...) roughly what would each part of this rebuild cost?

    - new pistons
    - valves
    - cams
    - strip head, send off for seat ?replacement? decking
    - refit with new guides
    - hone liner
    - replace rings / bearings self
    - possible bead blast rods
    - possible balance crank

  20. #20
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    The ew is an alloy block with cast iron liners.

    From 205 Drivers:
    "Thought I'd mention the 136BHP (old 206 GTi engine) longmans did an inlet and exhuast mani swap on the std engine and it was making 185BHP and 175lbs (claimed) which is pretty damn good. "

    XU10J4 block - 40 kg
    XU9J4 with 4 liners - 21 kg

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    Fellow Frogger! spar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTDVL View Post
    "Thought I'd mention the 136BHP (old 206 GTi engine) longmans did an inlet and exhuast mani swap on the std engine and it was making 185BHP and 175lbs (claimed) which is pretty damn good. "
    wow - cool since they are ~$700 !!!

    k - no brainer then - std 206 with custom extractors, haltech and ??what for the inlet.

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    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...owtopic=100444 - no idea maybe get a hold of longmans???

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    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Every 16 valve I've driven feels slow, seems you have to have your foot on the floor to get the advertised/desired performance.
    Graham

    Graham, if you get your butt into gear and get me that wheel cage then you can come and put your foot flat in my car


    My 2c is that if you are going to build a project car, then choose the engine you really want, not one that is just the best value.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
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    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dombou View Post
    Bingo.

    I reckon 200hp in a 900kg body (i.e. 222bhp/tonne) would be pretty tasty. Power shouldn't be a huge issue with semi slicks and a peaky/linear curve.

    I reckon it'd be a dream to drive.

    Perhaps ask yourself if you want a car with a lot of low down torque OR power that comes in a high rev peak - both are fun for different reasons I reckon. I cant rev my engine too much without risking death or gaol.
    Either way, you need tractability down low for normal driving.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spar View Post
    roughly what would each part of this rebuild cost?
    $900-1000 - new pistons & rings
    reuse existing - valves
    $200-$400 - cams
    $400-$500 - strip head, send off for seat ?replacement? decking and refit with new guides
    $200 - hone liners
    $200 - replace bearings self
    unnecessary - possible bead blast rods
    unnecessary - possible balance crank
    $200 - grind crank
    $300 - gasket kit, liner seals, gasket goo etc.
    $100 - resize conrods

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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