505 GTi idle
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Thread: 505 GTi idle

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Default 505 GTi idle

    When the engine is stared from cold it idles fine - going by the dash revcounter it looks like it's more or less 800 rpm, and it sounds right. But as it warms up the idle speed drops, and it eventually stalls.
    After, say, a ten mile run, the idle speed is still far too low, and it wants to stall.
    I've checked my hoses and as far as I can tell I'm leak-free. New plugs, new distributor cap fitted.
    Apart from the idle problem the engine seems lively enough. But a little thirsty. (21-22 mpg). As she's a little heavier than most, that's no surprise.
    What should I look at next?



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    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  2. #2
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Mike,

    It sounds like you need to open up the idle speed knob a touch. Your Supplementary Air Device (or SAD) is obviously working, it's role is to add more air while the engine is cold.

    Although I'm not completely familiar with how you've set up the motor in the 203, there is usually a black knurled knob on the driver's side of the top of the rocker cover, near the front of the engine, and usually integrated with the air conditioner idle valve. Adjust it out when the engine is warm until it's idling smoothly. Should be about 800-900rpm when warm, 1050 if it's an auto, to give you about 900-950 when in gear. When cold, it could be anything up to 1400rpm.

    Sometimes, if the engine is a bit old, the valves can gum up with oil vapour residue, and will need to be cleaned out properly before it will allow any air to pass. This would cause your symptoms.

    Hope this helps!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  3. #3
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Mike,

    It sounds like you need to open up the idle speed knob a touch. Your Supplementary Air Device (or SAD) is obviously working, it's role is to add more air while the engine is cold.

    Although I'm not completely familiar with how you've set up the motor in the 203, there is usually a black knurled knob on the driver's side of the top of the rocker cover, near the front of the engine, and usually integrated with the air conditioner idle valve. Adjust it out when the engine is warm until it's idling smoothly. Should be about 800-900rpm when warm, 1050 if it's an auto, to give you about 900-950 when in gear. When cold, it could be anything up to 1400rpm.

    Sometimes, if the engine is a bit old, the valves can gum up with oil vapour residue, and will need to be cleaned out properly before it will allow any air to pass. This would cause your symptoms.

    Hope this helps!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    OK, I make it that you are getting around 13Lt/100km. Not that bad for a 505GTI in stop/start city mixed driving, (you get about 10-11 Lt/100km on the open road). Your problem is not a major one.

    It might be the SAD is a bit sticky and or full "O" crap, so I advise removal and a good clean out with WD40 or similar. A good “low pressure” air flush and check the resistance of the circuit.
    As always check again for air leaks, (this includes taking off the concertina hose to the manifold and minutely inspecting it for cracks....trust me on this one....).

    I would also invest in a fresh set of plugs, (plugs a touch hotter if the engine is using a touch of oil).
    And use a can/bottle of mild fuel treatment/injector cleaner, red X, winns or Lucas etc.


    It does sound like an air leak on the by-pass circuit.

    Do not forget all the small diameter hoses and blocked up ports to the manifold.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  5. #5
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Or you could go straight to the point of the problem.....remove the gas tank lid and insert a towel of something similar ,push it in as far as possible, keep a litttle hanging out the filler hole and when the petrol has soaked right up the towel to the outside you light her up and stand back...

    That should do it Mike

    No need to thank me.

    Graham
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Or you could go straight to the point of the problem.....remove the gas tank lid and insert a towel of something similar ,push it in as far as possible, keep a litttle hanging out the filler hole and when the petrol has soaked right up the towel to the outside you light her up and stand back...

    That should do it Mike

    No need to thank me.

    Graham
    Dont listen to him Mike, he's giving you a bum steer.
    This method is used for jump starting a Renault.
    Last edited by Gamma; 29th January 2011 at 05:13 AM. Reason: Cant speel Renalt
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Mike,

    It sounds like you need to open up the idle speed knob a touch. Your Supplementary Air Device (or SAD) is obviously working, it's role is to add more air while the engine is cold.

    Although I'm not completely familiar with how you've set up the motor in the 203, there is usually a black knurled knob on the driver's side of the top of the rocker cover, near the front of the engine, and usually integrated with the air conditioner idle valve. Adjust it out when the engine is warm until it's idling smoothly. Should be about 800-900rpm when warm, 1050 if it's an auto, to give you about 900-950 when in gear. When cold, it could be anything up to 1400rpm.

    Sometimes, if the engine is a bit old, the valves can gum up with oil vapour residue, and will need to be cleaned out properly before it will allow any air to pass. This would cause your symptoms.

    Hope this helps!
    Relatively speaking, everything's in the same place, just the big concertina hose and one or two of the smaller hoses have been shortened, jubilee clips on any suspect joints.
    The engine has done about 111,000 miles, service history is non-existent, but it doesn't blow any blue smoke and doesn't seem to use any oil.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    OK, I make it that you are getting around 13Lt/100km. Not that bad for a 505GTI in stop/start city mixed driving, (you get about 10-11 Lt/100km on the open road). Your problem is not a major one.

    It might be the SAD is a bit sticky and or full "O" crap, so I advise removal and a good clean out with WD40 or similar. A good “low pressure” air flush and check the resistance of the circuit.
    As always check again for air leaks, (this includes taking off the concertina hose to the manifold and minutely inspecting it for cracks....trust me on this one....).

    I would also invest in a fresh set of plugs, (plugs a touch hotter if the engine is using a touch of oil).
    And use a can/bottle of mild fuel treatment/injector cleaner, red X, winns or Lucas etc.


    It does sound like an air leak on the by-pass circuit.

    Do not forget all the small diameter hoses and blocked up ports to the manifold.
    Would "hotter" plugs improve anything if it doesn't use oil? And what would be the hotter plug I should use?

    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Or you could go straight to the point of the problem.....remove the gas tank lid and insert a towel of something similar ,push it in as far as possible, keep a litttle hanging out the filler hole and when the petrol has soaked right up the towel to the outside you light her up and stand back...

    That should do it Mike

    No need to thank me.

    Graham
    Because I'm polite, many thanks, b'stard.
    But my eyesight is sh!t. If I stand back surely I won't see what's going on?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    Dont listen to him Mike, he's giving you a bum steer.
    This method is used for jump starting a Renault.
    I'll give it a try anyway. What's the worst that could happen?



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Cats,
    Not sure of the system used but could the area around the throttle butterfly be gunked up? This can affect the basic idle setting along with vacuum take-offs.
    Also if your system has a micro switch at the throttle butterfly, check for a "click click" when the throttle is cracked open and shut. [ign off].
    This can be upset if the factory base adjustment [screw locknut] or the throttle linkage has been disturbed.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    Mike, before you take Floride's advice....
    It would be worth checking for any cracks in the big hose that goes from the air flow sensor. Mine was doing what you described and the cause was a crack, well hidden (it had been temporarily repaired by tape) that I could not see until I took the hose off for a close look. I gather it only needs to be a tiny crack to cause a stalling problem. Yours may only be showing up once the hose is warm and flexible.

    New ones are no longer available (here in Oz at least) but if you can't source a good secondhand one you can do a repair with a silicon sealer. I will post a pic of my taped up dodgy one and the replacement one a fellow af member sent me.
    I hope this may be of help.
    Kaye
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 505 GTi idle-img_2509-15%25.jpg   505 GTi idle-505hose.jpg  
    Last edited by okalford; 29th January 2011 at 02:40 PM. Reason: minor
    '66 404 Wagon
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Icon6

    Thanks Kaye, I had a good look at mine before I fitted it and I'm sure it's OK.

    As you can see from the photo, mine's shorter than everybody elses. I had to cut the big fat bit off the end to squeeze it in. (No scope for any childish humour or double entendres there I don't think ).
    Anyway, hopefully size isn't everything.








    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Default Sorted.....

    Thanks, ladies and gents.

    Bought a bottle of injector cleaner, strange green colour, tasted horrible, but with a dash of orange and an umbrella sticking out of it it was just about palatable.

    Poured another bottle of the stuff into the tank - doubtless it works so slowly / gradually I won't notice a difference?

    And today I twiddled my knob. It was a bit stiff initially but it's OK now, and it altered the idle speed. I'll need to wait till morning to see how is does with a cold start.

    BTW, what's the small brass screw for halfway down? I didn't mess with that, purely curious.



    Mike.

    And yes, that is frost in the photo.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 505 GTi idle-twiddly-knob.jpg  
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  12. #12
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    That's normally where the air conditioner idle-up solenoid goes.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Ta. I don't have aircon.



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Well something is odd.
    Set the idle yesterday to round about 900 when hot. Cold start this morning and it idled at about 900, and stayed at 900 while it was warming up and the same when hot.

    I'm not complaining, just wonder why?



    Mike.
    Last edited by catshamlet; 31st January 2011 at 10:52 AM. Reason: changed warm to hot
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

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