Oil - Change to synthetic
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Oil - Change to synthetic

    I read Ash's thread on buying oil and as I don't want to hyjack the thread I will post my question here.

    How do you change from a mineral oil to a synthetic oil. Surely you would have to do more than drain one and pour in the other as the new synthetic oil would mix with what was stagnant in the engine.

    Is there a tric to removing whats left of the mineral oil?

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  2. #2
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    i'd be tempted to do a full engine flush...

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post

    How do you change from a mineral oil to a synthetic oil.
    Its a bit tricky.
    First you need to drain the block of mineral oil.
    Remove and replace the oil filter.


    THen put the sump plug in, and carefully refill with synthetic oil. This is important, if you dont use synth oil, you will fail in your effort.

    Leave it in for about 5-10,000 km, then drain the old oil out and replace with new synthetic oil.

    I think that pretty much covers it.


    Jo

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Leave it in for about 5-10,000 km, then drain the old oil out and replace with new synthetic oil.

    I think that pretty much covers it.


    Jo
    I'd change the filter again too, but that's just me...

    Sorry, I couldn't resist.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Moo,

    If you ignore Jo's attitude what he says is right - just drain & refill, replace filter and use. There is no problem with residual oil.

    The only point I can add, and this applies to all oil types, is to make sure the engine has been run up to normal operating temperature before draining. The moment you switch off the motor any suspended solids in the oil will start to settle on the bottom of the sump and recontaminate the new oil. Ideally, return from a drive, run the car up the ramps, or whatever, and remove the drain plug immediately you switch off the motor. This means having the drain dish, sump plug tool , rags, etc, laid out ready. Remember that the oil will be bloody hot, so don't get burned.

    Filter is not so important, as it drains filtered oil and retains any crud it has collected. Easier to change when cooled.

    Avoid leaving your car with any repair / service facility that may let the car stand for any length of time before they drain the oil.

    Regards,

    Fento

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fento View Post
    Moo,

    If you ignore Jo's attitude
    hey, at least I wasnt' being grumpy and swearing.....

    Sorry, I was being a bit silly...

    Jo

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Change to synthetic

    Admittedly never attempted on a French car, or on a newer low-km engine - but ...

    On the three occasions that I've tried to supposedly Do The Right Thing and 'treat' the engine of daily-drivers, that previously had run perfectly well on mineral oil before 'conversion' to the thinner synthetics, has resulted in an oil-burning PITA.

    I wouldn't pretend to be a mechanical guru, and especially not on this forum. But purely based on the strength of my own experiences - and from (numerous) resultant anecdotes - I'd never again put a synthetic oil into any engine unless said engine had been using it since it was near-new.

    JMO.


    Btw, my personal list of 'convert to synthetic' disasters:
    Falcon 6 OHV
    Mercedes V8 OHC
    Leyland V8 OHV

    Conversely I have Never had an oil-based issue (for 'street use' on 50+ cars) whilst using a suitable mineral oil.

  8. #8
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    Nota, on those engines where you changed to synthetic, were the oils of an identical or similar viscosity index or did you change downwards? (ie 20/50 to say 10/40)
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  9. #9
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    Craig, it was twice with Mobil 1 which iirc was then an equivalent or broader grade oil to what I was then using (BP Corse +), and quite recently with Penrite semi-synthetic that again was of a wider grade to the previously used (Valvoline XLD) mineral oil. All engines were of higher mileage at the time of swapping, but otherwise running A1 with 'zero' type oil consumption.

    Anecdotally I have often heard of similar experiences (from disappointing to disasterous) to my described, on larger capacity motors.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nota View Post
    Craig, it was twice with Mobil 1 which iirc was then an equivalent or broader grade oil to what I was then using (BP Corse +), and quite recently with Penrite semi-synthetic that again was of a wider grade to the previously used (Valvoline XLD) mineral oil. All engines were of higher mileage at the time of swapping, but otherwise running A1 with 'zero' type oil consumption.

    Anecdotally I have often heard of similar experiences (from disappointing to disasterous) to my described, on larger capacity motors.
    I had the same experience changing the fuego to the thickest full synth I could find. 15-50.
    Now I just use thick mineral oil or whatever is on sale, and bias towards nulon as they are a local company and I like their products.

    Jo

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    I have also heard that an engine run on mineral oil should stay on mineral oil - reason being it leaves behind loads of gunky deposits over the years that are best left where they are. Come along with a fancy synthetic and all it's detergents, and all of a sudden they're loose and circulating around your engine.

    My Mi16 had been run on mineral oil until I got it and switched to a synthetic. Bearings shot within a year or two, requiring a full rebuild. Coincidence? Maybe...
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Whilst never had the trauma of problems after swapping from mineral to synthetic oils it's maybe because the engine got either oil flushed or in the case of the Foulcan EF wagon got a litre of diesel engine oil as it was well past the due service.
    FWIW I'm a firm believer in cleaning out all the old oil out, even if it's the el cheapo method of a cup of turps into a warm engine and couple of minutes a fast idle to break up the goop. Probably not try this on a post ULP engine but works a treat with engines designed back in the '60's that haven't been serviced and/or run for an extended time, 6 months plus.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Oils ain't oils

    1. I always use the oil recommended in the car's operating manual. I figure that Peugeot's research and development department would probably know more than me.

    2. When changing my oil after dropping the plug I restart the engine and let it idle until the low oil pressure light comes on. This (I figure) drains as much used oil out of the engine as possible. I have been doing this for over 40 years now without problems.

    3. Are we all sure that the "synthetic" oil we are changing to is not really a high quality mineral oil that meets the synthetic oil specs allowing it to be called "synthetic"?

    I doubt mixing the old and new would be of harm.

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  14. #14
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    Gudday BIGRR,

    I agree that the manufacturer is generally right as to the needs of the car they designed, but with older cars newer oil technology is definitely the way to go. Jeez, the recommended lubricant for the gearbox and diff of my ute was grease diluted with kero.

    In this case look at any REPUTABLE oil company's recommendations for your purpose. They are generally pretty right.

    Keep in mind that they do sometimes get it wrong, tho - the auto transmission fluid for early Euro gearboxes sold in Australia is a case in point. This example was, however, a rare aberration, which was quickly acted on by the major oil companies to avoid a repeat blooper. Double check against other manufacturer's specifications.

    Regards,

    Fento

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Old ute

    fento,

    I still consider that using higher quality lubricants than the manufacturer recommends is not required and is a waste of $$$$. I have used the same oil in my Ti motor and gearbox for 37 years without the need for changing grade or brand.

    "REPUTABLE oil company's" just want you to buy their product.

    How old is your ute do you tie a log behind for brakes?
    Present fleet:-
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  16. #16
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    BIGRR,

    I think you will find that any oil formulation does not match the original of 37 years ago.

    By reputable I mean mainline established companies such as Castrol, Valvoline, etc., and of course they want you to buy their product, it is what keeps them in business, and is why they are continually updating their specs to stay competitive.

    The ute is of 1924 vintage, and no, I do not need a log. Its terminal velocity really does not need brakes at all on flat surfaces. I generally use my heel to stop it.

    Regards,

    Fento

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Oils ain't oils

    I have used Castrol GTX
    Present fleet:-
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    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fento View Post
    BIGRR,

    I think you will find that any oil formulation does not match the original of 37 years ago.

    By reputable I mean mainline established companies such as Castrol, Valvoline, etc., and of course they want you to buy their product, it is what keeps them in business, and is why they are continually updating their specs to stay competitive.

    The ute is of 1924 vintage, and no, I do not need a log. Its terminal velocity really does not need brakes at all on flat surfaces. I generally use my heel to stop it.

    Regards,

    Fento
    Fento, do you think those specs from oil companies are in-house or just taken from an industry website? A lot of them are worded exactly the same and it's not factory wording they use.
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  19. #19
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    Hong Kong Puggy,

    You have pick up on a good point. At a guess probably taken from the relevant standards, as I am sure they would not advertise their own formulas. I have no knowlege of specific formulation, apart from some of AlanS's dealings with oil companies over ATF for early ZF gearboxes of a few years ago.

    Other not unrelated incidents over the years has given me a cynical view of what oil / fuel companies claim, while meeting both industry and legislative standards.

    The basic point is that to remain competitive they must be able to convince customers they are not lagging behind their competiton in the performance qualities of their product.

    To not update their product with current technology would be committing commercial suicide, on this point alone I would suggest changes in formulation over any given time period.

    An example from the 1960 was a major brand oil that, while a good lubricant, was a disaster in lack of detergent action, to the extent that while working in a wrecking yard you could always pick this brand of oil from the sludge in the motor. They still label their current replacement with a similar name, but it does not behave like the original, only the name remains the same.

    Look at this current and other discussions on this forum over the years - if any company started lagging behind its competition the word would soon get around. That kind of public comment is not what any manufacturer would like.

    Regards,

    Fento

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