Leaky A/C
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: Leaky A/C

  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default Leaky A/C

    Hi Guys,

    The XM here still only holds gas for about 6weeks. It has a new evaporator (old one was leaky), new 'O'rings through into the dash (and everywhere I have touched). Works well...... while there's temporarily some gas in it I have receipts here for thousands and thousands and thousand of dollars spent on the A/C in this car, and from what I can tell, it's never not leaked.

    I'll go over it again with a UV light tonight.... I'm starting to think it must be the compressor seal. Either that or it's leaking at the *back* of the condensor where I can't see (as it's up againt the radiator).

    Is there anything special about Sanden SD7 compressors that I need to know... Hopefully I can just buy the seal and replace .... If nothing else it at least rules another possibility out.

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    Advertisement
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,283

    Default

    not the condensor in the dash
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Hi Guys,

    The XM here still only holds gas for about 6weeks. It has a new evaporator (old one was leaky), new 'O'rings through into the dash (and everywhere I have touched). Works well...... while there's temporarily some gas in it I have receipts here for thousands and thousands and thousand of dollars spent on the A/C in this car, and from what I can tell, it's never not leaked.

    I'll go over it again with a UV light tonight.... I'm starting to think it must be the compressor seal. Either that or it's leaking at the *back* of the condensor where I can't see (as it's up againt the radiator).

    Is there anything special about Sanden SD7 compressors that I need to know... Hopefully I can just buy the seal and replace .... If nothing else it at least rules another possibility out.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    SD series Sanden/Sankyo are renown for shaft seals leaks.

    They are sometimes hard to find with dye. An electronic leak tester usually "sniffs" such leaks.

    Best sign is oil in the clutch and a thick coating of dust on front of the clutch.

    You need a tool kit for replacing the seal. I believe JoBo has the kit.

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Thanks Rob,

    I'll see if I can source the tools locally (if there cheap enough). Sometimes older tools are really cheap on ebay UK (eg: ball joint sockets).

    I'll take a look at the compressor, given it's a diesel I'm expecting everything to look dirty/oily... including the compressor housing.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    not the condensor in the dash
    I hope there isn't another condensor in the dash ................ Then again it is a citroen
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  6. #6
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,829

    Default

    Have a good close look at the schrader valves in the connections where the vacumn and pressure pipes attach. Under the red and blue caps.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Have a good close look at the schrader valves in the connections where the vacumn and pressure pipes attach. Under the red and blue caps.
    Hi UFO,

    yep they were leaky, I fitted new "O" ring filler caps as one of the caps was missing it's seal.

    Looks like the tool kits are not common, and will be expensive due to postage costs.

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Note-Perfect-...item4cf313ff4e

    Replacement compressors can be purchased for about $320 delivered to our doorstep ( probably a no name compressor as it's listed on ebay as "Sanden SD7 replacement").

    I might even see if the local A/C store will change the seal at a reasonable cost. It's likely they always replace the compressor though. No-one "repairs" stuff these days, they just replace.

    What really annoys me is I've found my high side quick release fitting leaks. The small bearings that couple it to the connector on the car side have dropped out..... sigh.... You really need to know high side readings to know what's going on. More stuff to buy... Looks like $40 delivered for more quick release couplings on ebay.

    I haven't actually proved it's the compressor that's leaking yet. I don't want to spend big $$$ to find .... It's still leaking

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,599

    Default

    From memory you replaced the evaporator with a used one from the happy man in SA, "renovated" by a coat of paint.

    Did you change it again?

  9. #9
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    North Parramatta
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    From memory you replaced the evaporator with a used one from the happy man in SA, "renovated" by a coat of paint.

    Did you change it again?
    Perhaps the coat of paint wasn't thick enough?
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Perhaps the coat of paint wasn't thick enough?
    The replacement evaporator didn't have the corrodedd look to it at all. It's unlikely it's leaking (at least to the extent where we loose gas in about 6weeks). He paints the ends on all of them in an attempt to prevent corrosion (that kills them for some reason on XM's). I tend to trust Martin Bray parts, his stuff is very low milage, and he always quite honest with the condition/age of his parts.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,898

    Default

    Milage is largely irrelevant to these sort of things, as is any coating on the outside...

    Like radiators and heater cores, they rot from the inside out.

    (he says wondering where to get an R21 heater core after a low milage spare in the shed that was perfect externally has tested with about 8 million pin holes in it... )

  12. #12
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,829

    Default

    Actually in Shane's defence, XM cores typically rot from the outside in, as blockages on the drain holes in the vent chamber causes condensation to accumulate and encourage the creation of excess oxides.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Yeah, XM's rott badly on the outside The *inside* of an evaporator should contain not a trace of moisture, only oil and gas ................

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,898

    Default

    I stand corrected

    Wish heater cores did that....

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,485

    Default

    Cap the evaporator coil, put in a schraeder valve in one port and pressure test it for six weeks or so. I actually have a tee made up with a 0-250 psi gauge on it.

    You can do the same with the compressor.

    If you have a leak tester "sniff" the evaporator drain hose.

    If you have have injected dye collect the condensate and UV illuminate it (not sure on this 'tho)

    Slow leaks are very hard to find, I'm backing the shaft seal.

    I have a shelf full of SD508 all with leaking shafts, so much so, I going to have to PAY to have one fixed to cool my car

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    That's an excellent idea. I imagine you just have a bottle of something like nitrogen there that you pressurise with

    The sudden urgency to fix this has thankfully been put off for a few weeks iwth this rain and milder weather. I started digging a trench from the house to the shed a few days ago................... It's a really pretty long straight puddle now It feels like the movie the castle "I dug a hole today ..... It's starting to fill with water"

    The CX has a Sanden SD08 compressor that's the original "ancient" one. The A/C still works, so even if it's low on gas (I'll find out the first really hot day), I don't mind topping up a 30year old A/C system as it looses a little gas over 12months. Possibly from the compressor as you suggest.

    There doesn't appear to be any really good electronic sniffers for Hychill. No doubt if they are sensitive enough, they'll trigger everywhere in an engine bay due to petrol/oil/gas fumes.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  17. #17
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,898

    Default

    JoBo and I rebuilt the sd508 (I think. Might be a 7 piston one, but still your bog standard sanden) on the R21 with his special tools and seal kit.

    Was dead easy and the seal kit was cheap (50ish or something like that from Cooldrive). I think it needs a little top up, but can't see any leaks and that was all done a year ago I think.

    I'd be happy if I were you and it was a compressor leak - waaaaaaaaaay easier than an evaporator

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    JoBo and I rebuilt the sd508 (I think. Might be a 7 piston one, but still your bog standard sanden) on the R21 with his special tools and seal kit.

    Was dead easy and the seal kit was cheap (50ish or something like that from Cooldrive). I think it needs a little top up, but can't see any leaks and that was all done a year ago I think.

    I'd be happy if I were you and it was a compressor leak - waaaaaaaaaay easier than an evaporator
    Hmm,

    I might PM JoBo and see if he can post piccies of the tool set. Possibly even a "universal" type A/C clutch tool set will do.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    That's an excellent idea. I imagine you just have a bottle of something like nitrogen there that you pressurise with
    seeya,
    Shane L.

    Yeah! for sure! I buy it at the servo and it has a LH thread on the bottle!

    And the electronic leak tester works on it as well!

    You could even use a match!

  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Thanks Rob,

    what sort of detector do you have .... I'm going to copy and buy what you have

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  21. #21
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Thanks Rob,

    what sort of detector do you have .... I'm going to copy and buy what you have

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    redheads
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,485

    Default

    Any of the "universal" types will work.

    Mine is a Tiff brand rated for R12, R22, propane/ butane type refrigerants. Never been tried of R134A or R410a,
    It is old as Methuselah, 20 years or more so you won't get the same unit.

    Buy a brand name tester unit but expect to pay around $400 . Make sure you get a unit with long goose neck on the head, 500mm or more for working under dashes. I think the flammable gas testers are different to the HFC testers these days.

    Javac are well known Oz company or try an LPG fitter supplies if you use nothing but Hychill.

    Even ask Hychill tech support.

    EDIT: I've just checked the manual- my tester is not rated for flammable gasses and it's been a bad idea using it because it's an ionisation type.

    Here is an lpg tested at a fair price: http://www.test-equipment.com.au/lea...s?&language=en
    I guess it should be OK on ER12 because it's a propane butane mix?
    Last edited by robmac; 25th November 2010 at 02:52 PM.

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,852

    Default

    Thanks Rob,

    Yes I've looked at a lot of the detectors, and most seemed unsuitable for Hychill. The cheaper detectors I wasn't sure of sensitivety (especially when they are used for bascially checking for gas bottle leaks, huge sensitivety wouldn't be necesary). However the $150 listed on that website could be the go.

    The reason wasn't sure about using the stuff for leak testing, is a gassed system seems to have a static pressure of < 80psi. However the gas doesn't become a liquid until about 180psi (from what I can gleen from a 30second google search). So you would just keep adding gas until your were at a pressure just below the point you get a liquid and use that for testing individual components

    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    444

    Default

    I am still trying to locate the correct 'o' rings for the BX. A few originals I have pulled apart were of a different section to the standard 'o' ring. Asked several expereinced air con people and a couple have said that some European systems used oval section seals, and that normal 'o' rings will leak.

    I have measured both parts of the BX fittings, and tried standard 'o' rings in them, and the flare on the pipe section beds solidly on the end of the socket leaving 40 / 50% clearance for the 'o' ring, as opposed to lightly clamping it.

    The application of washing detergent / water mix applied with a paint brush around any accessible fitting will show any gas leak and did so at both fittings on the condenser. Using two 'o' rings in the same hole resulted in extrusion of the top ring, using one correct size and them stretching another smaller section ring onto the fitting seemed to improve the situation so that regassing every 6 to 8 months kept the system going. They still leaked, however, so the correct seal, when found, would probably cure the problem.

    A set of seals from Pug dealer were standard round section, although coloured brown instead if the more usual green.

    Note that both seals on the compressor are standard 'o' section, and Hychill gas was used.

    Still looking,

    Fento

  25. #25
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,599

    Default

    Fento, the Alfa seals are a stacked O-ring profile in green polymer. Not like a quad ring; more a figure eight in cross-section. Dear as poison, and a dealer-only part! However, they may help...

    FWIW Hychill etc have a real pong. I know a dodgy fellow who cracked one system while parting out a car; it made four of the five workshop staff physically sick very fast (spewing).

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •