205 Gti no go starter
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! WAUTY205's Avatar
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    Icon5 205 Gti no go starter

    Seems to be the season for starting problems . I have done a search & come up with some good info from previous threads but thought I might give a rundown on my problem.
    Christmas day the starter didnít do anything, not even a click form the solenoid (kinda embarrassing in front of all the in-laws ). The battery had plenty of power & started fine with a push. Hadn't worked once since until the weekend when I had some time for an investigation.
    There is 12v at the solenoid control wire when the key is turned. I shorted from the power terminal straight to the spade terminal & the starter turned over fine! I gather that when a load is put onto the control wire the voltage drops too much. I followed the wire to the fuse box & from there to the ecu (Is this right?), I could not find any relay as mentioned by others. It would have helped with a wiring diagram but I donít have my manual at the moment.
    I think maybe the key switch may be worn out. Does this sound right? Any help would be appreciated as Iím sick of parking on hills. Iím starting to think a separate starter button is the way to go !
    -Will

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    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    These Froggies do not like power running through their ignition switches. I've just dumped the wire from there to power the internal fans on the Xantia as the key used to get red hot and the fans worked when they felt like it not when I did.
    On my 16V we ran a wire to a simple push button on the steering column shroud.
    Take a wire from the solenoid (that you've already found,) run a power supply up to the push button switch and back down to a relay and across to the wire from the solenoid.
    Then you turn the ignition on, hit the button and live happily ever after. Option 2 is a new ignition switch that then sets off another set of dramas getting door locks to match etc and will set you back $200 - $300 I understand. The push button option should give you change out of a $10 note. Much easier to live with and cheap and easy to replace if ever necessary.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
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    yeah noticed the 5's key is a little warm too!

    I'll probably go the starter button option too...
    Made a real nice setup for a friend, used a stainless illuminated push button with a relay, it SOOOO looked the goods (switch alone was $48).


  4. #4
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Nate, just make sure you can still start the car with your key, as an option. As in NSW its a 'canary' defect if the only method in a post -85 car is not via the ingintion key switch. (hence S2000's can still start with key, BMW 7's, S class Mercs, etc)
    Don't ask me how i found this out, lets just say tow trucks in the middle of town are expensive.... - Chris
    ... ptui!

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    That's not a problem if you just leave the wire connected to the switch as it will still do enough to attempt to start the car; geez Chris, you'd have to be unlucky enough to find a NSW copper bright enough to spot that. I thought most of them down there sign their names with a "X"
    The excuse for it being there is that it's used to do compression tests etc without having to disconnect the coil.



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    Nate, just make sure you can still start the car with your key, as an option. As in NSW its a 'canary' defect if the only method in a post -85 car is not via the ingintion key switch. (hence S2000's can still start with key, BMW 7's, S class Mercs, etc)
    Don't ask me how i found this out, lets just say tow trucks in the middle of town are expensive.... - Chris

    LOL, yeah always in parallel...
    If there's a problem, remove & keep going

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    That's not a problem if you just leave the wire connected to the switch as it will still do enough to attempt to start the car; geez Chris, you'd have to be unlucky enough to find a NSW copper bright enough to spot that. I thought most of them down there sign their names with a "X"
    Yep...
    I used to have just a alphnumeric keypad & a push button to start my old S16. I could even have all the dash/all other electrics off. Great for track work. But I got busted when a cocky coper spotted the roll cage at a servo. He waited till i moved out of the petrol station & they followed me closer to my way home (near central), blipped the lights and pulled me over. They checked the car (it was night time) very closely and asked al sorts, about the cage, seat etc etc. Then he asked to see under the bonnet, i said ok as long as he tels me why. He said the car could be non-roadworthy, and wanted to make sure it was poperly registered & complied. I let em have a look, pretty clui cops really. spotted the intake, the plastic manifold etc the he asked me to start it. I was standing on the passenger side and his partner spotted me reaching in throught the window & saw me hit the button.
    They claimed the car was not road worthy & wanted to give me a fine as the tires didn't look ARD aprooved..... anyway 1 hour later were still talking and its getting a little heated, their getting an uncumbered check on the rego etc etc..... In the end i musta have tirgered something cause a patrol cruiser rolls up, cofirms that the push button is elligal & the factory OEM key was not the primary on/off for the engine etc....(has been bypassed) so i got a canary & i had the car towed coz I don't really trust surry hills area.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S

    The excuse for it being there is that it's used to do compression tests etc without having to disconnect the coil.



    Alan S
    Thats Gold!!! ill use that!... if i ever get another race car. - Chris
    ... ptui!

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Beleive it or not there was a 205 with push button start.
    its the 205 gti gentry.
    it also has wood panels in the door and dash
    full leather intereor and a host of other things.
    the bad bit is its automatic and has a very detuned 1.9 motor.
    was made for the japanese market
    maybe you could source the parts from a uk wrecker and install it and tell the cops to take a flying fart at the moon as you can prove that it came from another 205 gti.
    =-http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif-BAZZ
    BAZGTI
    87' 205 gti anthacite grey
    electric sunroof/tinted windows
    koni yellow adjustables/sparco strut brace.
    15" polished speedlines.
    momo steering wheel.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    and tell the cops to take a flying fart at the moon as you can prove that it came from another 205 gti.
    The original 205 was before 85 though. Its only a NSW thing as far as I know, & I'm certain its only for post 85 model cars... But that still won't stop a coper from hasling you and just finding something else wrong with your car.... trust me Baz, the boys in blue take no shit round 'ere. (their probably sick of it & then some)... - Chris
    ... ptui!

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! WAUTY205's Avatar
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    Icon14 Fixed!!

    My car is now fixed!!! It feels very strange starting the car with a key.
    I did try fitting a relay in the system but it didnít help .I bought a starter button but I tested that before fitting properly & it didnít help either. I replaced the solenoid & still nothing . Thankfully the 205 is a light car & doesnít take much to run start.
    Last night I removed the starter motor (nasty job) & I found that one of the springs pushing the brushes onto the commutator had melted & lost its shape. It was touching enough to give a continuity reading but not enough to handle the high current. New spring & allís good! Almost a shame I donít need to fit the starter button . -Will
    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    From my own experiences, I reckon that's what causes 90% of starters on these 205/405/BXs to fail.

    If you read this:

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...66&postcount=8

    in the write up here:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23512


    you would have seen this statement:

    Upon reassembly, it was found that the springs supplied with the kit were slightly different to the originals (that tells you something) in that the originals had 8 winds in them whlst the replacements had 7 but the new ones were about 4mm longer than the originals. Upon examining the old brushes, it is found that there are clear marks from where the spring has sat on the rear of the old brushes and it is offset and the angle of wear on the bushes is greater on the side that shows the spring mark (naturally) so you have to wonder if perhaps the originals were a little too stong in tension and contributed in part to the problem.
    Here's hoping this can give you a few clues & be some use to you and a few others.



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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