mi16 wierd starting problem...
  • Help
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Icon8 mi16 wierd starting problem...

    Hi again.

    I'm really starting to regret my comments of my mi16 being the picture of reliabilty!

    In tha last 2 days it has developed a very strange issue on the first start of the day. I jumped into it and turned the key - it seemed to crank over like normal for a turn or two, but then the sound and feeling of the starter changed. it sounded and felt to me like the starter (and engine) were no longer turning a full turn. hard to explain, but thats what it felt like.

    tried the key a couple more times but with the same result - i got it to start properly by putting the car in gear and rocking it backwards and forwards, then it starts like normal!

    I have recently had a relay put in on the ignition switch i was experiencing the famous mi16 "click", and its been fine since then (until this of course!).

    can anyone suggest what the problem may be?

    Cheers,

    Advertisement


    Kriss
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Picton NSW
    Posts
    1,412

    Default

    This may be as simple as a battery problem.

    A dud cell/s draw down quickly, (and O/night), and no longer have enough power to crank after a turn or two and will recharge when finally started and seem OK for the rest of the day.

    Then again you have been teasing and fooling with the wiring monster and this its revenge.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Classic symptoms of this problem and attached is the cure.

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23512



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Default just cos im lazy

    thanks for the replies guys...

    not wanting to disregard your advice Alan, but I kinda want to explore Gamma's suggestion further first before going through with a whole starter motor removal/rebuild/replace..

    How can i check if it is the battery? just using a multimeter?? would i just look for voltage?
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Picton NSW
    Posts
    1,412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Classic symptoms of this problem and attached is the cure.

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23512



    Alan S

    enthused!, It may well be the starter motor.
    Try the easy options first, as the cost of changing a starter motor that is good, is high.

    Recheck your recent wiring works.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Default

    guys -

    its not my battery - borrowed a jump starter and it makes no difference. in fact starter doesnt even try to turn anymore but all electrics (headlights, stereo etc) seem fine so im gonna attempt replacing the starter myself...

    I have a mate nearby with a garage and the necessary tools and I'm not actually going to re-condition the starter myself - im going to take it to a trusted auto-electrician and get him to do it for me - as all of the skimming etc requires tools and expertise that neither of us have.

    Basically we're just going to do the straight forward bits of removing the starter, replacing bad wires, and then re-fitting fixed starter.

    A couple of questions though:

    - Alan - when you're replacing the wires how are you splicing the new wires into the old ones? using crimp-connectors, soldering?

    - what parts will i need for what im doing? Any gaskets required for the plenum etc?

    - if the starter motors position is adjustable, how do you tune its fitting?? (or is this not important - just put it back exactly where it was)

    - is there anything else i should look for/test/replace while im there and have access?

    thanks again.
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Default

    guys -

    its not my battery - borrowed a jump starter and it makes no difference. in fact starter doesnt even try to turn anymore but all electrics (headlights, stereo etc) seem fine so im gonna attempt replacing the starter myself...

    I have a mate nearby with a garage and the necessary tools and I'm not actually going to re-condition the starter myself - im going to take it to a trusted auto-electrician and get him to do it for me - as all of the skimming etc requires tools and expertise that neither of us have.

    Basically we're just going to do the straight forward bits of removing the starter, replacing bad wires, and then re-fitting fixed starter.

    A couple of questions though:

    - Alan - when you're replacing the wires how are you splicing the new wires into the old ones? using crimp-connectors, soldering?

    - what parts will i need for what im doing? Any gaskets required for the plenum etc?

    - if the starter motors position is adjustable, how do you tune its fitting?? (or is this not important - just put it back exactly where it was)

    - is there anything else i should look for/test/replace while im there and have access?

    thanks again.
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  8. #8
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Yep, new plenum gasket is a must and if you have any intention of redoing the seals etc on your injectors, now's as good a time as any to do it.

    As far as any connections go; we usually either solder and sleeve if it's in an out of the way place or otherwise we just use proper crimped on connectors.
    Internally if your mate is doing it, the pigtails on the brushes can be soldered on but as a clue, snip the old ones at the end away from the carbon brush so there's a bit of woven copper wiring there to give a better base to solder the pigtails to.
    Adjustment I feel is only necessary if you are playing with the bendix etc and need to adjust the throw on the solenoid starter. Run a meter across the terminals of the solenoid preferrably with a load attached (we did it with and without just to be certain) so that it is eliminated as a possible cause, but I;'ll lay odds on it being the brushes or more accurately one brush that is sitting a bit cockeyed on the commutator due to uneven spring pressure.
    BTW, as I'm not much on the computer at present, if you need any more info in a hurry, just PM me and if necessary I v=can send my mobile number for direct contact if need be.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Default

    Thanks Alan,

    a couple more little questions (just so i can make sure i know what you're saying)

    redoing the injector seals - by this do you mean just the o rings? any idea of what size i'd need?

    and could you possibly elaborate on the method for checking the solenoid?
    - multimeter accross the terminals and check for voltage? (im guessing the solenoid has to still be hooked up to the car for this?)
    - how do i put the solenoid under load? just by cranking the ignition while testing?
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enthused!
    Thanks Alan,

    a couple more little questions (just so i can make sure i know what you're saying)

    redoing the injector seals - by this do you mean just the o rings? any idea of what size i'd need?
    This should answer that one for you.

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29329


    and could you possibly elaborate on the method for checking the solenoid?
    - multimeter accross the terminals and check for voltage? (im guessing the solenoid has to still be hooked up to the car for this?)
    - how do i put the solenoid under load? just by cranking the ignition while testing?
    We just sat a meter across the large terminals an activated the solenoid; that way you can tell if it's snapping in properly. A meter sat between the power source and the solenoid will tell you if 12Volts are getting through to activate the solenoid. This will indicate either degraded wiring or an ignition switch on the way out. We had an auro sparky do a test under load on the actual solenoid but if the above check out, you should be pretty safe.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Default

    Well - starter is now out of the car and being re-built as we speak. Injectors are also off being ultra-sonically cleaned.

    Everything went pretty much to Alan's instructions (thanks Alan) although there were a few extra bolts and brackets here and there which may be particular to the mi16 and not on the bx.

    Found that the wiring in this area actually all seems pretty good, however the hoses are shocking! Why do people use non-reuseable hose clamps!?! .

    have to find a replacement oil filler hose - the big one that goes form the filler within the plenum and down to the sump and has a little T piece built into it. The rubber of this piping is so brittle that it crumbles as soon as you touch it!

    ... stage 2 - re-installation begins tonight (if i can get all the parts in time). Will keep you updated.
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Default

    SUCCESS!

    Picked up my re-built starter ($220), freshly cleaned injectors ($100), new gasket ($20) and new oil filler pipe ($105!!!) on friday - total cost $445... I had been quoted 5-600 for a new starter motor + at least 3 hours labour + still would have needed the oil pipe replaced so it would have cost me around $900 if taken to someone else..

    Put it all back together on saturday after doing quite a bit of cleaning and polishing. Only hitch i had was that the OTHER oil pipe which comes from the filler bit also decided to go - it just split as soon as i tried to put it anywhere near the connection it's supposed to slip onto, so i used another piece of piping i had and joined it to the unboken section that remained.

    You wouldn't beleive how nervous i was when it came time to turn the key... but she turned ove very eagerly straight away and then started second time.

    brilliant!

    thanks very much Alan for your instructions and phone support

    ...now i might start looking at the next bits that could do with some attention...
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Nowhere near as hard as some would make you believe hey?

    Good to see it went to plan.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sinney
    Posts
    439

    Default

    Definately not.

    It's all quite straight forward - the only piece we struggled with both on dis-assembly and re-assembly was the attaching (and dis-connecting) of the oil filler hose to the filler piece. This is only difficult because it needs to be done with the plenum in place and that means access is quite restricted and you're pretty much working blind.

    everything else was just a matter of attacking logically and patiently.

    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •