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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Default more 205 gti s.a.d ???

    just got word from peugeot that a new s.a.d is $380 and they dont stock them anymore.
    does a 405 s.a.d fit a 205 gti?
    can they be reco-ed and where do you go
    any other tips on where to get one.
    the wreckers have all had a rush on these items in the last year or two.
    they must have a standard life of about 18-20 years if the sudden popularity is anything to go by.-BAZZ

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    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    just got word from peugeot that a new s.a.d is $380 and they dont stock them anymore.
    does a 405 s.a.d fit a 205 gti?
    can they be reco-ed and where do you go
    any other tips on where to get one.
    the wreckers have all had a rush on these items in the last year or two.
    they must have a standard life of about 18-20 years if the sudden popularity is anything to go by.-BAZZ
    Pugwreck - $66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    just got word from peugeot that a new s.a.d is $380 and they dont stock them anymore.
    does a 405 s.a.d fit a 205 gti?
    can they be reco-ed and where do you go
    any other tips on where to get one.
    the wreckers have all had a rush on these items in the last year or two.
    they must have a standard life of about 18-20 years if the sudden popularity is anything to go by.-BAZZ
    A 505 GTi one may fit, I threw the one on my 205 away, it was causing a very erratic idle. I'm now using an electrical fast idle valve driven off the Megasquirt.
    Graham

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    What does s.a.d stand for ??? I've drawn a blank

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    What does s.a.d stand for ??? I've drawn a blank

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Supplementary Air Device.

    Basically a bimetallic strip that operates a rotating valve that allows more air to bypass the throttle plate when the engine is cold. It has an electric heater element, that is operated on a timer and the device is located downstream of the radiator air, so it remains heated when the engine is hot. Consider it the "choke" for early EFI vehicles.

    The SAD is a similar device for virtually all Bosch L-Jet or K-Jet equipped cars. You can scrounge them from Peugeot 505 STi and GTi, 205, 405, Volvo 262, 264, 265, 760, 780, Audi 100CD, Citroen BX 8 valve EFI, and a host of other cars.

    Interestingly, I have still never seen a dead SAD. They will last for a very long time if kept clean. I have seen a lot of them so gummed up with crap from poorly maintained lubrication systems on engines that they have stuck in either the open or closed position (usually closed) to the point where they are useless.

    If you take them out of the car, measure with a multimeter across the contacts of the Bosch plug on it. If the resistance is less than about 300 Ohms, chances are that it is perfect. Soak it overnight in a generous container of your favourite degreasing agent (99c can of degreaser, kerosene, shellite, petrol). Then find a soft bristled object and clean inside as far as you can see. Rinse and repeat until nice and shiny. This process may require to be repeated a couple of times over a couple of weeks to get all the gunk out that you can't get to when it is either fully open or fully closed.
    Scotty

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Oh ok ... I should have worked that out ... I'm used to them being refered to as auxilary air devices/valves. I've never had one die (though I think the wax filled device in my old DS21ie is toast ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    A 505 GTi one may fit, I threw the one on my 205 away, it was causing a very erratic idle. I'm now using an electrical fast idle valve driven off the Megasquirt.
    Graham
    You may be able to rig a similar setup without using a megasqirt or aftermarket computer. Just souce an appropiate water temp switch (under normal running temp say 50 or 60c) and use it to to tun on an electric fast idle valve. You could also be lazy and just put a switch on it and have it like a manual choke. If you can't buy new ones or get the old ones successfully reco'd this might be the best long term solution.

    Jarrod

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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    Pugwreck - $66
    so your the guy who he just sold his last one to a month or so ago.http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/ima...con10.gif-BAZZ
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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Oh ok ... I should have worked that out ... I'm used to them being refered to as auxilary air devices/valves. I've never had one die (though I think the wax filled device in my old DS21ie is toast ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yeah well they do die,at around the 18-20 year mark by the looks of the series 1 owners i know of late that have had to purchase one.
    they are dime a dozen on uk ebay.
    also gti drivers forum has a link about it which kinda rells me that there is a need for the info.
    a need for the info tells me that other people had the same problem.
    its in the section of that covers general breakdowns and what to look for.
    -BAZZ
    BAZGTI
    87' 205 gti anthacite grey
    electric sunroof/tinted windows
    koni yellow adjustables/sparco strut brace.
    15" polished speedlines.
    momo steering wheel.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    Yeah well they do die,at around the 18-20 year mark by the looks of the series 1 owners i know of late that have had to purchase one.
    they are dime a dozen on uk ebay.
    also gti drivers forum has a link about it which kinda rells me that there is a need for the info.
    a need for the info tells me that other people had the same problem.
    its in the section of that covers general breakdowns and what to look for.
    -BAZZ
    What are the symptoms of your "dead" SAD?
    Have you checked it with a multimeter?

    If you buy a secondhand one, make sure you go through the procedure I posted to clean it before you put it on, otherwise you're just going to have to do it again in a few months anyway.

    Also check the things that will cause it to sieze as well - dirty air filter, or insufficient filtering, and excessive blow-by into the crankcase.

    Otherwise you'll be stuck in a vicious cycle of "dead" SADs.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

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    at first it was just the idle dropping at start up and you had to kepp your foot on the pedal a bit or it would nearly stall.
    i posted this problem a few weeks ago and the conclusion drawn by was a failing sad.
    on that post another member wrote that his was doing that but as well was displaying the symptoms mine is now doing.
    which is-on start up it drops the idle but now seems to run on 3 cyl till warmed up.
    get it passed 3 tho revs and its fine.
    it was explained that the sad allows more air into the throttle and ups the revs at similar to an auto choke at start up.
    when they fail it exudes the above symptoms.
    now im very sure it the sad.
    this was seconded by the local pug mechanic last thursday but due to xmas he couldnt do anything[i turned up to the work barby and he was pissed].

    now im sure its also not the air filter as im pedantic about regular mantenance.
    crankcase blowback,dont know.

    read the link in the gti drivers forum and it describes my symptoms to a tee.
    mine has probably gone due to a leak in the dizzy seal that comes back after 6 mnths of fitting a new one.
    its right under the dizzy.
    im waiting to get a reco dizzy before i bother replacing it again.
    -BAZZ
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    ok the only place i have found new ones at a reasonable price is from Germany and yes made by Bosch, recalling i sentcha a msg about a new one there was 4 sale bout 2-3 mths ago (sold for $35!!!). could you quote the number on your actual s.a.d. please? if you havent removed it b4 its v easy: disconnect the 2 hoses, undo 2 bolts mounted underneath n voila!

    about the dizzy, soon enough i too will reco. mine but i'll do it myself tho, already having pulled it apart once. theres a bosch place in Syd that sells the kits(guts) for them - they have to order in tho. i am assuming you have a bosch dizzy, SamR did surprise me with his Duc dizzy in his 205 pug!
    BTW theres a brand new bosch coil (0 221 122 317)for sale if your interested, very (VERY) cheap atm. if i had the cash i would jump at it!
    lemme know...
    hope the pics help.
    Puggy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails more 205 gti s.a.d ???-chokecontrol.gif   more 205 gti s.a.d ???-additionalairhousing.gif  

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    btw do you still need a boot seal? i might be able to get you a price on a g/c 2nd hand one if you need it.
    Puggy.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Some of your symptoms sound like your SAD is clogged, yes, but there is one that definately isn't the SAD:
    to run on 3 cyl till warmed up. get it passed 3 tho revs and its fine
    That is not because of the SAD. All the SAD does is to increase the air bypassing the throttle plate, in essence it opens the throttle a bit. Your problem sounds a lot more like a dodgy ignition system, or less likely a problem with your fuel delivery system. Replacing the SAD will NOT fix this problem.

    I have cleaned out at least 10 SADs in the last 12 months that were showing exactly the same symptoms as you describe (not idling when cold, which is about the only symptom a stuck SAD will show), only to find that there was nothing wrong with them at all, they just needed a good clean.

    As for your filters, do you know that the filter was kept clean and in perfectly serviceable order for the car's entire life before you bought it? Is the inside of the throttle body, intake manifold, all hoses including to the SAD as well as the SAD, perfectly clean? If not, then I highly recommend that you spend the 1/2 hour to pull your SAD out and clean it, chances are it will work again and you've saved yourself a wad of cash.
    Scotty

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    al
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    Mine is kinda sick still... I got it out yesterday, (and with help) had it adjusted till it closed when immersed in water.

    When i started it today it went nuts, and was idling at over 2k rpm.

    Should i just replace it, or could this be fixed?
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    Mine is kinda sick still... I got it out yesterday, (and with help) had it adjusted till it closed when immersed in water.

    When i started it today it went nuts, and was idling at over 2k rpm.

    Should i just replace it, or could this be fixed?
    What speed does it idle at when cold (first start in the morning)? It should be about 1300 -1400 RPM.

    Possibly it is still sticking, but more likely you will need to adjust your idle speed. Let the engine run until it is completely warm (until the radiator is warm all over), and then adjust the idle speed till it is about 950 RPM.

    Check also for any air leaks.

    It is possible that if your SAD has been sticking, your idle speed may have been previously adjusted to compensate. When I tell you that the inside needs to be clean, I mean REALLY clean. A bimetallic strip doesn't have much in the way of pushing power, so a spec of grit can jam it. Adjustment of the SAD itself is rarely necessary after a good clean out, unless it has been messed with previously. In adjusting it to close all the way, you may have adjusted it to open too far.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Okay. Back to the SAD.

    I have a problem that doesn't seem to affect the running of the eninge, but in the quest of stabilising the idle speed I decided to check the SAD.

    So here goes.

    Resistance at ambient temperature is 45 Ohm (as per manual).

    With voltage applied, nothing happens. Looks like should be opening, but it doesn't. Voltage applied via two leads, directly from the battery.

    Diaphragm seems to be moving freely, I cleaned it anyway. Tried to adjust by undoing the nut, opening the diaphragm, and tightening the diaphragm but the diaphragm closes back to the same position on release. I suppose if it opened I should see a difference, but it doesn't so I can't assess the result. How do you adjust it anyway?

    And from my experiments it looks like the SAD would work exactly the other way around to what is described here (http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...opic=42508&hl=) post 9, i.e. it is powered and opens when ignition is switched on, and after a time the voltage is cut off and it is supposed to close. Am I right?

    And how do I check my SAD is working? Or is it not working since it didn't open under voltage?
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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    SAD is fully open when cold. As it heats up (either by ambient air temperature under the engine bay or by the heating element within), the aperture closes.

    If yours is stuck shut, as it sounds like it is, it will not idle much slower when cold than it does hot.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I am not sure what you mean by stuck. It is very easy to open it with a thin screwdriver through the opening. It just closes back as soon as you release seemingly as if it was spring loaded.

    By the way, I have two SAD, both with the same behavior (resistance, shut, etc).

    And how do you adjust it?

    One more mention, measuring the current when voltage is applied I get zero reading, as if the coil was interrupted, even though it measures consistently at 45 Ohm.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #21
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    I have heaps of 205 SAD's if anyone is after them.
    jr20516v

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I am starting to believe the SAD is too much of a pain in the butt for what it does (especially in our climate) and I am considering chucking it in the bin. For now I moved it in a more accessible place so I can check it works a bit easier. I am still trying to find out how to adjust it and see if cleaning the bejesus out of the spare can get it to do something. We'll see.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    i blanked mine off on my mi16 when i had an aftermarket computer. adjusted the throttle stop to bring up the idle just below 850 and fiddled with the timing help keep it up and steady
    The wrong oil is better than no oil at all.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capago View Post
    i blanked mine off on my mi16 when i had an aftermarket computer.
    Mi16's don't have a SAD. Some dodgy mechanic probably fitted it. An Mi16 is supposed to have an Idle Control Valve (ICV).

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Mi16's don't have a SAD. Some dodgy mechanic probably fitted it. An Mi16 is supposed to have an Idle Control Valve (ICV).

    sorry thats what i meant
    The wrong oil is better than no oil at all.

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