Coolant alternatives for track use.
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  1. #1
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    Default Coolant alternatives for track use.

    At Rob Roy recently, the Fuego was over boosting and it blew the compression ring from the headgasket into the water jacket. The cooling system pressurised with boost pressure (30+ psi ) and blew a 10cm hole in the top radiator hose.

    It dumped all 8L of coolant in about 50m.

    I'd never driven on glycol before and although I'd heard it was slippery, I wasn't prepared for the speed of the ensuing spin at such a low cornering load and I am lucky that I didn't end up sideways in a tree.

    I have always run Glycol based coolant in my cars, but was thinking of doing a complete flush and using Redline Water Wetter instead.

    This is a blurb about what it's claimed to do...

    • Doubles the wetting ability of water
    • Improves heat transfer
    • Reduces cylinder head temperatures
    • May allow more spark advance for increased torque
    • Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis of all metals
    • Provides long term corrosion protection
    • Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
    • Prevents foaming
    • Reduces cavitation corrosion
    • Complexes with hard water to reduce scale

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    I am under the impression that it basically improves the surface tension of the water and reduces micro boiling and hence allows greater heat transfer to the water.

    Has anyone here used it?

    Good or Bad feedback?

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    There are a few net articles from royal purple about the stuff. Worth a read.....


    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=563112

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    There are a few net articles from royal purple about the stuff. Worth a read.....


    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=563112
    Hmm, interesting. Thanks for that.

    I've been told Pentrite make a glycol free 'racing' coolant also, so I might have a look at that stuff too.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I tried the penrite SIN - red colour, which is suitable for motorsport but I also read somewhere that it is not great for wet cylinder sleeved cars, so changed back to glycol based for bow. I'm contemplating that waterless coolant that was on wheeler dealers recently and that advertised in Just Cars or the other one Unique Cars but haven;t yet.
    KB


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    What exactly is a heating cycle?
    I assume one turn turn on to turn off? So after 36 days we had problems?
    Would look at it more seriously if it wern't one competing company writing about another.
    For what it's worth, have used it often on many makes with none of the reported problems noted in the article surfacing.

    David

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    Redline Water Wetter This is a blurb about what it's claimed to do...

    • Doubles the wetting ability of water
    • Improves heat transfer
    • Reduces cylinder head temperatures
    • May allow more spark advance for increased torque
    • Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis of all metals
    • Provides long term corrosion protection
    • Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
    • Prevents foaming
    • Reduces cavitation corrosion
    • Complexes with hard water to reduce scale

    I am under the impression that it basically improves the surface tension of the water and reduces micro boiling and hence allows greater heat transfer to the water.
    Hi
    I really know not too much here but will add my anyway.
    The first two "improvements" on that list are to do with the water wetting the metal and perhaps the next two follow on automatically. Adding detergent to water achieves "improvements in surface tension" so perhaps that's all you need for these

    "Improvements" 5,6,9,10 are achieved by a corrosion inhibitor formulation like most coolants have

    Am I just cynical or ? about these 'amazing' claims for expensive racing products.
    jaahn

  7. #7
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    I'm not sure that there is anything to be cynical about, the 'claims' are hardly meant to imply that it does something amazing a coolant won't (apart from the wetting effect) its simply a list what it does.

    I simply want to use it because it isn't slippery like normal glycol based coolants if it leaks.

    I'd run plain water, but I'm worried about the long term effects on water pump bearings and corrosion/errosion/electrolyisis.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I use the Nulon concentrate which I think is non glycol. The other side is you shouldn't worry. Oil is also slippery if it falls out of your engine.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger! Fingers's Avatar
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    He is probably hoping the rods stay in the engine...

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fingers View Post
    He is probably hoping the rods stay in the engine...
    with 30+ psi

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Oil is also slippery if it falls out of your engine.
    You usually get an audible warning when the rods make a desperate bid for freedom...

    I had no warning the car had dumped it's load of coolant until I was looking at the track through the side window...


    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR
    with 30+ psi
    Shutupayaface...

    It wasn't MEANT to have that much boost... It was rather amusing - in the way bungy jumping at the cheapest place in Indonesia must be...

    On a good note, the engine appears to have a built in safety valve.

    Most people call it the head gasket

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The oil filter could spin off if not wired up.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    The oil filter could spin off if not wired up.
    AAAHHHH Don't say things like that. You know murphy has ESP

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    I use the Nulon concentrate which I think is non glycol.
    Is that this stuff?



    I might give that a go. The car doesn't ever run hot enough to require the higher boiling point of glycol. I must admit I skimmed straight past that stuff as I assumed it was a glycol concentrate but in the product info it states - In motor sport applications, Nulon Ultra Cool (R45) is a suitable alternate to glycol based coolant. Glycol is very slippery and is difficult to remove from the race track surfaces, which poses risks to other drivers on the track.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Yep, that's it. I've spun an oil filter. It takes approx. 250m before you realise it. By then, the damage is done and your pride is severely dented as you help sweep up.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    The oil filter could spin off if not wired up.
    Or the seal could blow out if the old one is left on the block and new one is installed with new filter enabling massive oversteer at 7km/h. No I wasnt the installer, just the driver. The installer was a professional

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    Just watch the cool down.
    I found my donk coughing a bit after shut down with just a type B anti corrosion coolant.
    Simply changing to type A saw the issue never return.


    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    Or the seal could blow out if the old one is left on the block and new one is installed with new filter enabling massive oversteer at 7km/h. No I wasnt the installer, just the driver. The installer was a professional
    Please feel free to refer to post 13...

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    but you wont have to contend with the "professional"

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    but you wont have to contend with the "professional"
    I didn't know we'd previously met?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    The oil filter could spin off if not wired up.
    Note to self... lockwire drain plugs and filter

  22. #22
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    I don,t know if this is any use to you, but in recent years I,ve swapped all my vehicles to Power-cool.This is a product that can be obtained from Detroit MTU. It is a long-life heavy duty coolant formulated Quote Construction and industrial,Mining power generation,Rail, truck , bus, agricultural It is called Gf9443 premix coolant. It does not contain Nitrite, or Ethylene glycol.It therefore does not provide anti boil, or anti-freeze below minus 0 protection. It meets or exceeds Peugeot B715110, Renault type D, as well as many other specifications. They sell it in 20litre pre-mixed containers, for around $100. If you can find a Detroit diesel MTU retailer they should have it.At lot of mines around Kalgoorlie use it exclusively, on all fleet vehicles, as does the majority of Detroit -Diesel powered trucks on the road.I have only heard good reports.NB: Most heavy trucks have wet liners

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andys5004 View Post
    I don,t know if this is any use to you, but in recent years I,ve swapped all my vehicles to Power-cool.This is a product that can be obtained from Detroit MTU. It is a long-life heavy duty coolant formulated Quote Construction and industrial,Mining power generation,Rail, truck , bus, agricultural It is called Gf9443 premix coolant. It does not contain Nitrite, or Ethylene glycol.It therefore does not provide anti boil, or anti-freeze below minus 0 protection. It meets or exceeds Peugeot B715110, Renault type D, as well as many other specifications. They sell it in 20litre pre-mixed containers, for around $100. If you can find a Detroit diesel MTU retailer they should have it.At lot of mines around Kalgoorlie use it exclusively, on all fleet vehicles, as does the majority of Detroit -Diesel powered trucks on the road.I have only heard good reports.NB: Most heavy trucks have wet liners
    Sounds the way to go for all users!

    Trucks don't race(?)!


    All these weekend hot'emup racers only seem to get one or two races before they blow their motors.
    Motors won't corrode internally in 25 laps!
    Why not use tap water and put aside the inhibitor $s towards the new replacement conrods, pistons etc?
    (I don't know though, water may start your "donk coughing a bit after shut down" Jo.)
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  24. #24
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    (I don't know though, water may start your "donk coughing a bit after shut down" Jo.)
    But all the rust and scale will keep it coughing the rest of the time..
    My cooling system is just fine the way it is thanks.

    Jo

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by andys5004 View Post
    I don,t know if this is any use to you, but in recent years I,ve swapped all my vehicles to Power-cool.This is a product that can be obtained from Detroit MTU. It is a long-life heavy duty coolant formulated Quote Construction and industrial,Mining power generation,Rail, truck , bus, agricultural It is called Gf9443 premix coolant. It does not contain Nitrite, or Ethylene glycol.It therefore does not provide anti boil, or anti-freeze below minus 0 protection. It meets or exceeds Peugeot B715110, Renault type D, as well as many other specifications. They sell it in 20litre pre-mixed containers, for around $100. If you can find a Detroit diesel MTU retailer they should have it.At lot of mines around Kalgoorlie use it exclusively, on all fleet vehicles, as does the majority of Detroit -Diesel powered trucks on the road.I have only heard good reports.NB: Most heavy trucks have wet liners
    That's interesting. Many thanks. I'm tossing up higher boiling temperature (glycol) vs heat capacity (no glycol) so will look up this stuff. Kal can be warm in summer too.
    JohnW

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