Throttle bodies on GTi6?
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    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Default Throttle bodies on GTi6?

    So has anyone put quad throttle bodies on a GTi6 XU10J4RS engine? What sort of difference does it make? How do the original intake and exhaust manifolds work above 8000RPM? Looking for the next evolution for my track car. The XU9 is awesome, but I'm looking for more power to keep up with the rice burners in a straight line.

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    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Don't get too hung up with the letters "GTi6". All you really need to do is put your Mi16 head on an iron block. In addition to the extra 93cc, you also get more compression and unshrouding of the inlet valves (thanks to 86mm bore) which increases inlet port flow. The best iron block is the XU10J4, as you get full floating rods. Add an XU10J4 thermostat housing and you get full sequential injection.

    No need to discard your investment in the Mi16 head.

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    Fellow Frogger! Karoshi's Avatar
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    Itb's on the xu9?


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    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Worth thinking about...Karoshi, I have Jenvey 45s on my S1 XU9J4 engine with 11.4 CR and CAT cams - puts 138kW on the road. Not too shabby, but not quite up to the improved production speeds required to be competitive.
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    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    Fellow Frogger! Karoshi's Avatar
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    Is there that much to be had?

    About 7kw with volume increase.....using basic volume to power proportion...


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    Last edited by Karoshi; 20th July 2013 at 12:11 PM.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    + compression + port flow

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Since the injectors run at a duty cycle around 80% at WOT (meaning it's spraying at a closed valve most of the time), the sequential injector timing only serves to reduce the fuel consumption at low throttle levels. In fact, Megasquirt 1/2/3 systems don't even support it. I think for a track car there's no point worrying about sequential injection, but if you're going to be driving it in traffic a lot it could save you 1L/100km.
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Not sure about your maths. Sequential also helps to reduce duty cycle, as it removes one injector dead time from a complete engine cycle. I run a max of 68%. I've certainly found that it improves torque which is the stuff that pushes you out of a corner. Also, Motec and Autronic are sequential only, and have only ever been. Thus someone thinks it's worth having.

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    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Yep, sequential injection is the next thing to do. At 8300RPM and 390CC injectors, I run fuel pressure at about 4.5BAR so that injectors can run at about 80% duty cycle. Will be sorting a cam wheel and sensor some time soon to get this happening. What I would really like to know is what the engine specs are for the 306s that get raced in the UK.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Why don't you just add an XU10J4 cam sensor tang and bits and keep it factory? It's a lot easier. 306S16 stuff isn't any more special that what you already have, other than double springs.

    8200rpm + 390cc + 3 bar = 68%
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Throttle bodies on GTi6?-cam-sensor.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    That would definitely be the go, just need to find the parts. The only other thing I am thinking of for this engine is staged injection and trying to make the intake tract longer - lower the radiator and run much longer trumpets on the throttle bodies.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    Like this? 205 gti6 with GSXR bike bodies - startup - YouTube
    Looks like this guy has done it. Claims he has 158.4 BHP & 195 Nm at the wheels.
    Do it, it looks cool
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Looks messy.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Be cool to see a Pug racing IPRA. Plenty of competition in the Under 2ltr class.

    SR20, 4age and K20 all make very good power for a N/A 2ltr so would be cool to see a European motor running up the pointy end of the Unders class.
    Last edited by Water Boy; 9th December 2013 at 01:21 PM.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    It would need to be 1998cc however. You can't give away anything in that class.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Still thinking about it. Went and checked the IPRA boys out at Sandown the other weekend. There is a lot of money in the category. would be much easier to be competitive in an old Falcon in the sport saloons. We'll see. I really enjoy scaring hell out of cars that go past me in a straight line when we arrive at the next corner...
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    Bring the 205 out for some gravel fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by racing405 View Post
    Still thinking about it. Went and checked the IPRA boys out at Sandown the other weekend. There is a lot of money in the category. would be much easier to be competitive in an old Falcon in the sport saloons. We'll see. I really enjoy scaring hell out of cars that go past me in a straight line when we arrive at the next corner...

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    Throttle bodies on GTi6?-socks-1.jpgThrottle bodies on GTi6?-205-001.jpgThrottle bodies on GTi6?-205-005.jpg

    Before: After:


    I have managed to go from 50mm ram tubes with socks to 150 mm (curved) ram tubes in a box with a panel filter by fitting a shorter radiator and relocating the power steering. There were a few headaches along the way but I'm hoping it pays off. It made roughly120kw atw before and it will be interesting to see if there is much difference. Eventually I will go for a solid lifter setup and the e85 should let me run quite high compression but it's about time I enjoyed some time actually driving!
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Looks good. Make sure any nuts/screws inside the box are wired/loctited etc. I had a ram tube retaining bolt come loose, which got sucked up and bent some valves. I didn't think one panel that size flowed enough air. Thus mine goes around the top a bit.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Throttle bodies on GTi6?-air-box.jpg  
    Last edited by PeterT; 17th August 2013 at 02:05 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

    Before: After:
    WOW!! that looks incredible! nice work

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    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Yes, the 205 looks great with the box and throttle bodies. Now toying with the idea of ditching the 405 and barring out the 205 for IPRA. Have found out that another member here is now racing the Xsara in IPRA (or wife is). Would be great to be on the track with that car. Did sub 2m at Phillip Island on Sunday in pretty poor conditions. Next time I go down there I'm taking slicks. I have to compete against cars on slicks so may as well take the advantage when it won't affect my classification .
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    Ben, Do you want some bitumen spec Bilsteins to go with that, turns out I got the wrong shocks, explains some things!
    Definitely fronts are bitumen (shortened) I'll check the rears this morning.
    Graham


    Quote Originally Posted by racing405 View Post
    Yes, the 205 looks great with the box and throttle bodies. Now toying with the idea of ditching the 405 and barring out the 205 for IPRA. Have found out that another member here is now racing the Xsara in IPRA (or wife is). Would be great to be on the track with that car. Did sub 2m at Phillip Island on Sunday in pretty poor conditions. Next time I go down there I'm taking slicks. I have to compete against cars on slicks so may as well take the advantage when it won't affect my classification .

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Could well be interested in those shocks - are they from your 205 or 405? I still have the SI struts here to bring back for you too. Will be another couple of weeks before I have opportunity again.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    205, I checked the length out today and it seems to be the same as the Konis so not sure about them being shortened as advertised.
    I've refitted the Konis anyway so see how it goes in the rough stuff now.
    Graham

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    Hi Racing405

    Mrs Xsara here!

    before you go out and spend a heap on slicks the control tyre for IPRA is Yokohama A050. If you haven't driven on them before your going to love them. Very stable once they come up to temp. They were worth a couple of seconds in the mX5's. nice job at PI at the weekend!

    Cheers
    Chris



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    Last edited by owenb; 21st August 2013 at 11:35 PM.

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