Wiring help XU10J4R Coils running wasted spark
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Default Wiring help XU10J4R Coils running wasted spark

    Im hooking these up to a haltech. I need to first figure out which pin number on the coil cover corresponds to which coil.

    There is a 4 pin plug that runs into a sealed cover that houses the coils. Im not sure if I can test it with a meter as coils retain charge?

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  2. #2
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    Wiring help XU10J4R Coils running wasted spark-coils-1.jpgWiring help XU10J4R Coils running wasted spark-coils-2.jpg
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  3. #3
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    You need Peter

    He has them running on robert riggs car.

    Think it will come down to you having the correct ignitor
    Adrian Wuillemin

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Only reason I ask is Im going to be running a mates Haltech from his GTi6 and swapping it to may car and I dont want to have to put it on the Dyno etc. Im opening my business next week and have zero cash! Hopefully peter will see this and shed some light.

    Otherwise, am I able to use a multimeter or will i get shock!?

    Thanks for the reply

    Cam
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  5. #5
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    Sorry, can't find the data. What I do know however, is that one wire is +12V, another is cylinders 1 and 4, another is cylinders 2 and 3, and the fourth is for the capacitor/suppressor. The first and the last will be zero ohms. Ask on the 205 forum. That's where I found it.

    Your bigger issue is how to fire them. You will either need two ignition modules or a dual channel CDI/MSD etc. You can't fire them directly from a Haltech ECU, as it won't be able to handle the current. The easiest setup is two '008 ignitors (or equivalent) and set the Haltech output to constant duty. The cheapest setup is two 205/405 ignitors and set the output to constant charge, but you'll need an oscilliscope to optimise the charge time. The best setup is to buy an M&W dual channel CDI.

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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Would it be easier to buy 2 more coils and run them from the ecu?

    Are they the same as a GTi6 Coil? Find 4 of them and run them form the Haltech?

    Cam
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  7. #7
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    Hi,
    Peter will most likely have the answer. However it is quite safe to use a multimeter on the coils. There will be no shocks.
    Cheers Jaahn

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  9. #9
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    The only coils you can run direct from the ECU are LS1/LS2 with built in ignitors. This could be a false economy for you however, as you will still need some custom ignition leads, ~$100. GTi6 coils are individual (direct fire) and do not have built-in ignitors. Yes, the Pro-12 is a solution.

    You can bench test the coils to work out the wiring. I'm fairly sure the +12V wire will be the largest.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Ok thanks for the info. Makes sense.

    When you say the Pro 12 is a solution, is that the easiest way to go about it or is another unit better suited?

    Cam
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Or something like this peter? Get some HT leads and a harness made up and go from there?
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LS1-Coil-...#ht_1229wt_956

    Cam
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  12. #12
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    Haltech dual channel ignitor $170 or $90 for those LS1 coils + custom leads... http://store.haltech.com/default/ign...and-paste.html

    In the long run you'll be better off with the LS 1s, you'll use them on your stroker engine too. But don't forget about having to custom build a bracket for them. I have a white line strut brace that you could hang them off!
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  13. #13
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    Coils don't retain charge, capacitors do this.
    I guess just connect a 1.5 volts battery to the primaries and see what happens at the secondaries (using a meter) as the primary is connected and disconnected.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Im hooking these up to a haltech. I need to first figure out which pin number on the coil cover corresponds to which coil.

    There is a 4 pin plug that runs into a sealed cover that houses the coils. Im not sure if I can test it with a meter as coils retain charge?

    Pics to follow

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    BIGRR runs a dual channel MSD on his XU10J4R and it's one of the sweetest sounding engines you'll ever hear. That's why I suggested the CDI. I run the Pro-14 on my 205. You just have to weigh up the cost/time of fitting aftermarket coils versus the CDI price. As Pat suggested, the Haltech dual channel ignitor is also a good option in terms of price, but you'll still need to optimise the charge time with an oscilliscope.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    BIGRR runs a dual channel MSD on his XU10J4R and it's one of the sweetest sounding engines you'll ever hear. That's why I suggested the CDI. I run the Pro-14 on my 205. You just have to weigh up the cost/time of fitting aftermarket coils versus the CDI price. As Pat suggested, the Haltech dual channel ignitor is also a good option in terms of price, but you'll still need to optimise the charge time with an oscilliscope.
    Is the point of the CDI that it automatically works out / optimises the charge time so there's no need for the oscilliscope? Also, do you think this (with the j4r coils) woud be a good option in the future for the bigger hp engine that Cam's building too?
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Peter. Can u let me know which MSD it is the RR uses. I'll order one over the weekend and run it that way. It seems to be the easiest option with the best result. I've had a look at a few but am unsure which to get for my application.

    Thanks
    Cam
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  17. #17
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    Cam, just realised that you need an air temp sensor too... This harness has the plug for the sensor from haltech, its on their online store.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Peter. Can u let me know which MSD it is the RR uses.
    MC-1 for motorcycles, although I'm not sure they make it any more.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    I think its going to be cheaper to run the LS1 coils and make a bracket to mout them. I have Pat bracket the Owen made I can copy to munt the coils. At 90$ for a set of four second hand I think I would be silly not to. I need to have my car on the road asap and also need to keep any unwanted cost down. I would love to do it perfectly and fit a CDI or MSD but at 400$++ I just cant justify it at the moment.

    I was also going to try and fit Sequential injection but there is no bung hole for the Cam sensor so will also have to give that a miss at the moment.

    Thoughts?

    Cam
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'd probably just buy a dual channel ignitor. Heaps less aggro.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Ok. Im struggling to find one to suit my application. Can you point me in the right direction?

    Cam
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    And Ill need and oscilloscope? Whatever they look like or do? Only info I can find is that they use them in hospitals? Which one will I need along with the dual channel ignitor?

    Cam
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  23. #23
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    Oscilloscope is a tuning tool that is used to measure the pattern of the charging and firing of the coils (amongst other things) when using separate ignitor to charge the coils up. That's the beauty of the LS1s, built in ignitor means that all of that has been worked out already.

    Id be interested to hear what Peter means by too 'agro' though... Is the CDI much smoother? My car is a bit of a grumpy beast :-D
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Only reason Im keen to use the Dual channel is that I dont have to have a mount made for the LS1 coils. Its seems it will be easier to sort the problem. And I like the sound of having a good sounding car!

    FWIW Pete, Im going to be using a GTi6 Inlet and Exhaust on the car so will be interesting to see how it runs with the J4R

    Cam
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  25. #25
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    Id be more concerned dollars wise about paying a tuner to work out the charge time than getting a mount made up, but I might be wrong about that...
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