Wheel toe check.
  • Help
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,881

    Default Wheel toe check.

    Hi
    Am interested in a simpler way to do my toe-in check.
    Anyone used these;
    Trakrite Wheel Alignment Gauge for cars vans light commercials
    Gunson G4008

    Advertisement


    I have not found a alignment shop that will actually do a satisfactory job. I guess tire shops have a vested interest in poor wheel alignment I usually do it my self with a tape but thought this unit would be good to give a quick check. Tires can dissappear while you are thinking about it.

    Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 28th April 2013 at 08:20 PM. Reason: corrections

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    2,712

    Default

    Geez, Jaahny,
    "Vested interest ?"
    You'd be a hard man to satisfy. Reminds me of a customer who returned after an alignment complaining that the rubber hadn't grown back on his tyres !

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,858

    Default

    For normal cars I'm sure your local tires places would be fine. You can see the toe-in quite easily if that is all your after just by measuring (infact we even used an extendable tent pole years ago... the idea is you get the wheels to measure the identical amount first..... ie: 0.00mm toe in/out. Then screw each adjuster in 1mm so you end up with an overall toe-in of 2mm (1mm each side).

    Having said that I bought a 4wheel computer aligner cheaply quite some time back so i could fiddle with CX front ends..................... Last night I tried to use it on my ID19 and found the rear wheel hangers can't handle the "D"............. You see the rear track is so much narrower than the front track, the lines that run forward to the front heads can't be adjusted out far enough ................. I'm going to have to have to make up some "long" line holders for the rear wheels :roflmoa:

    seeya,
    Shane l.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,881

    Default Hard to please

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Geez, Jaahny,
    "Vested interest ?"
    You'd be a hard man to satisfy. Reminds me of a customer who returned after an alignment complaining that the rubber hadn't grown back on his tyres !
    Hi Yea
    I am hard to please. What I ask for is a normal quality professional job. What I have received for the last three wheel alignments that I had done when I fitted a new set of tires was shit.
    When the tires soon started to feather I checked the toe myself and had to correct it by significent amounts. The printouts from the u-bute machine showed it was perfect. U figure what the problem is.

    I can copy the printout from last week done on my VW transporter. The toe in on the two back wheels are 1.3mm and 3.3mm total 4.6mm. "within specs". did not get adjusted even though I had specificaally asked for it. "probably could not get it any better anyway", I was told. That place came recommended as the best in town
    Fussy ???? My new tires on the line, $600+ worth.

    I did not ask how to measure the toe, I know how. I asked if anyone had any experience with that Trackrite guage.
    jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 28th April 2013 at 10:19 PM. Reason: add more ravings

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,858

    Default

    They dont' set them up properly .... It's a simple as that. The machine I bought was apparently still being used ... and all bits were there. I tell you it simply defies belief. There is two very minor bits missing.......................... That I can easily make. Without them it'll do a very consitant hugely incorrect alignment every time without fail. Yes it will print pretty little sheets and display the exact figures you have dialed in ........................ Only they'll be the wrong figures

    I just googled your wheel aligner above.... There doesn't seem to be any reviews about on them at all............ Do you really just drive over it like the UTube clip shows I'm scratching my head wondering how that possibly works accurately, but I guess it must

    I much prefer this one ... tape measures can't lie ...and you get an elegant way to clip onto the wheels......... I also understand how it works.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIY-WHEEL...30b0b5a&_uhb=1

    seeya
    Shane l.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  6. #6
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,427

    Default

    I have never used anything but a tape measure on a DS and never had problems.

    On many cars, toe-in (or out) varies according to how high the car sits on its suspension. You (or the garage) might want to move it through its suspension travel by hand and see what that does to the toe-in. I was shown this by Mick Devaney, the best wheel alignment person in Bendigo, on my XM a few years ago. It was scary!

    Roger

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,496

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    I have never used anything but a tape measure on a DS and never had problems.

    On many cars, toe-in (or out) varies according to how high the car sits on its suspension. You (or the garage) might want to move it through its suspension travel by hand and see what that does to the toe-in. I was shown this by Mick Devaney, the best wheel alignment person in Bendigo, on my XM a few years ago. It was scary!

    Roger
    Did he fix it for you???

    Jo

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Did he fix it for you???

    Jo
    No .... proper DS/CX/GS/SM suspension will not fit under an XM sadly

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,427

    Default

    Shane is right. It's an artefact of the crappy Macpherson strut front suspension. A DS has proper suspension, so you can set the toe-in accurately with a tape measure.

    Roger

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,569

    Default

    I use a U shaped device fabricated from 25 x 10 mild steel flat bar and a rule. The U shaped device fits around the outside of the wheels/tyres allowing me to measure the difference between 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. I measure off the rim rather than the tyre. Simple. For road 205/405 I use -1 to 0mm, for track cars 0 to +1mm. Under brakes the wheels toe out changing the measurement.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,881

    Default Some reading on side slip!

    Hi
    Side slip testers are used widely OS. But seem to be unknown here.

    Some reading for those interested.
    http://www.paintandpanel.com.au/file...Ealignment.pdf
    http://skyjuiceiswater.blogspot.com....side-slip.html
    http://www.ariestools.com.sg/SST48%20Instructions.pdf

    jaahn

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,858

    Default

    I wouldn't bother with any of that modern chinese looking junk stuff...... Watch ebay .... even if it takes a couple of years and grab a proper old alignment system. I was searching for one like Jo's .... No electronic, just simple anglular measurements and calibrated attachments (ie: it will always, always work 100% accurately and never break ............................................. if you can figure out how the hell to setup the thing ).

    I found this one in the end ...... It was only $100 from memory with the heavy duty turntables and everything, so worth a punt:

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...=1#post1159600

    seems to work really well. The only problem I've had is trying to convert in my head the "angular" measurement it display versus mm toe in/toe out every manual suplies. Angle is a much more accurate measurement that'll work for all wheel sizes and types.... if only I could find a conversion chart to go from angles to toe-out versus wheel size

    These old units are really cheap as there old for starters, they required detailed knowledge usually to operate and there slow and fiddly to setup and calibrate ................ ie: no good for the average tire changer to use.... However being ex-industrial will be well made and last a lifetime or two.

    This one would be great, but they want crazy money for it

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-Wh...479efa8&_uhb=1

    seeya,
    ShaneL.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Uffee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    The only problem I've had is trying to convert in my head the "angular" measurement it display versus mm toe in/toe out every manual suplies.
    A good rule of thumb is 1 degree is 1 in 57.
    504 GL Coupe '73 Silver
    504 GTDT Pickup Mini-Motorhome '83 Coral Red
    407 HDi Sedan '05

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uffee View Post
    A good rule of thumb is 1 degree is 1 in 57.
    Um, Ok 1 in 57 what ?

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Uffee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    651

    Default

    So a 15in rim has a radius of 190.5 mm. If we want 1 degree toe, then we'll need 190.5 /57 = 3.34mm of toe.

    Perhaps more useful, if we want 1mm toe, then we'll need 57/190.5 = 0.299 degrees toe.

    Edit: I should note that 1:57 is a rule of thumb, it's suitable for this kind of thing but I wouldn't use it for anything over 5 degrees.
    Last edited by Uffee; 30th April 2013 at 02:42 PM.
    504 GL Coupe '73 Silver
    504 GTDT Pickup Mini-Motorhome '83 Coral Red
    407 HDi Sedan '05

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,858

    Default

    that makes sense
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,881

    Default Gunsens Trackrite Chinese !!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I wouldn't bother with any of that modern chinese looking junk stuff......
    seeya,
    ShaneL.
    Well what an insult to the poms. The Gunsens Trackrite is a British unit and has been made for quite a while. So I guess it fails your description on both counts. It also has no electronics.

    Gunsens have been producing innovative tools for the DIY persons to work on their cars for as long as I have been working on cars. However I have not actually seen or used this one in the flesh. Hence the question. Obviously no one else here has either. I will probably just go for it.

    The reason I will not be getting a full old style aligner is simply that I do not wish to get down and do it any more. I have been doing it for years but feel its the end of that stuff. My knees tell me so So I thought if I could just drive over the Trackrite and get a 2 minute answer as to whether I need to have it done or not, I would be happy. If the car drives OK generally then the toe is the most important factor in tire life. If I get my VW correct then the tires will see out my use of it. The recent 'alignment' did not achieve that for sure. Just hard to satisfy, as Wildebeast said.
    jaahn
    P.S. 1 in 57 is a ratio, as is an angle. Could be 1 mile in 57 miles. More to the point here is say; 1 mm in a length of 57 mm as Uffee has shown.
    Last edited by jaahn; 30th April 2013 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Hard to get it right ??

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,858

    Default

    I'd be most surprised if there not made in china Regardless, it looks like you get to be the reviewer if you buy one. I couldn't find a review about them anywhere (you found the youtube clip too ?).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,569

    Default

    Here's my toe out gauge hanging up in the shed. Hope you like it. It's difficult to see, but it has a pointer on one end and a mount for a rule on the other. Extremely accurate..........well, as good as you can measure.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wheel toe check.-toe-out-gauge.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •