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Thread: XU9J4 rebuild questions

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default XU9J4 rebuild questions

    I am rebuilding an XU9J4 to replace the one currentlyfitted to my BX16v. I got an engine from a wreck in the "Pick-A-Part"in Dapto. The speedo read 40k in the 1989 BX, and the engine looks to bethat vintage. Might have scored a good base t start with [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Michael/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG].
    So far I have stripped the engine completely and have theblock away to be cleaned, and the crank checked. I measured the crank bearingsurfaces "roughly" and they looked as new. A question. Is it goodpractice to replace the main bearing bolts? Are these bolts meant to be"difficult" to remove? I tried to get one out and it was verydifficult; so I stopped before damaging something.
    I have a reconditioned head to go on and the"Z" hi comp pistons to go in. The liners appear in fine condition, nodiscernible lip and they measure as new.
    Looking through past posts I noticed that Peter T statedthat he is no longer in favour of fitting the 26 tooth oil pump drive; I havegot one to fit, along with the "6Bar" spring. Should I fit the 26tooth or not??
    I am fitting all new bearings and the usual replaceableparts water pump, pulleys, timing belt, seals etc. Any good "hint"on the rebuild would be appreciated.
    Cheers
    Michael


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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Where did you get the 6 bar spring from?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Where did you get the 6 bar spring from?
    A Peugeot dealer, had to get it from France, but not a problem. Part number 11511, cost $7.00 delivered.

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael16v View Post
    A Peugeot dealer, had to get it from France, but not a problem. Part number 11511, cost $7.00 delivered.
    Michael, you lost a digit! It's 1157 11. See-http://www.taylor-eng.com/sump/wetsump.htm
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    I wouldn't use the 26 tooth, the chain wears the sprocket quickly on all the ones we have pulled apart.
    Adrian Wuillemin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Wuillemi View Post
    I wouldn't use the 26 tooth, the chain wears the sprocket quickly on all the ones we have pulled apart.
    OK, thanks for that info. Is this because the 2ltr pump has a different size sprocket on the pump shaft? Or just a common point of excessive wear on all the 26 toothed engines?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    Michael, you lost a digit! It's 1157 11. See-http://www.taylor-eng.com/sump/wetsump.htm
    Yep, sure did!!

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Excessive wear, 26T sprockets are soft. Just use standard 1.9L Mi16 parts. You never see an Mi16 with low oil pressure at idle.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    No you only see the oil light come on on turns 2, 4 and 10 at Phillip Island!!! Ha ha ha. Good luck with the engine rebuild. Consider carefully where you will get biggest bang for your buck. it is clear the XU9J4 is a well sorted engine, and as per Peter T's comments, biggest improvement is via compression. Mine runs 11.4:1, but I haven't calculated the dynamic CR. Another pug fan has built an engine to nearly the same spec as mine, spent more money and came out with lower torque and power figures. Biggest difference between our engines is that he has gone the big valve option (mine are original) and I have quad throttle bodies (he has a huge single throttle body of something else).

    I would recommend a bottom end balance, it does make a difference, especially if you are retaining your original con rods. Nitriding the crank is a nice thing to do, but really not essential. Controlling oil surge in the pan is critical. Take the time to build a good windage tray and oil traps in your sump - it will pay off under track conditions or long hard corners where I have had the original Mi16 setup starge for oil mor than once.

    Pistons are going to be your biggest point of difference. Peter T has made recommendations in this regard, take a look for that. I have Wossner pistons fitted. You can achieve the CR by machining the block and liners to increase piston protrusion - but that's real precision work. With compression sorted, you can think about the right cam for your application. Lots to choose from in the market. Pick a cam that will deliver power and torque where you want to use it. No good putting a race cam in your engine if it is going to spend most of it's life below 4000RPM.

    Keep us posted and good luck with your build.

    Cheers.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Excessive wear, 26T sprockets are soft. Just use standard 1.9L Mi16 parts. You never see an Mi16 with low oil pressure at idle.
    Thanks Peter. I will stick with the standard sprocket and will fit the 6 bar spring. Do you still sell the pickup extension? I have your baffle fitted to the other sump but still have a pressure drop on long corners, so the pickup extension would be a good option for this engine along with the baffle.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Yes, but you'll need to fit the deeper XU10 or early 8V sump plus the spacer plate, if fitting the extension. It's difficult to fully eliminate surge on long LH corners. Read this thread and watch the videos:

    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...owtopic=148425

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Thanks for that Peter T.
    So, as I have the finned alloy sump and spacer, this will not fit the extended pump pickup?
    Cheers
    Michael

  13. #13
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    No wont fit with the extension, you need a sump from an XU10J4 ( iron block) or an early 8 valve 205 ( no spacer).

    I have either of these sumps that i will sell if you need one. Could deliver to Peter if needed.
    Adrian Wuillemin

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Yes, but you'll need to fit the deeper XU10 or early 8V sump plus the spacer plate, if fitting the extension. It's difficult to fully eliminate surge on long LH corners. Read this thread and watch the videos:

    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...owtopic=148425
    Not able to see the pictures, and can not join 205 forum for some reason - admin not accepting new members!! Am interested in the "new sump" picture.

  15. #15
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    Pics and vids.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Rkx8_DU30

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmXyBcgTXlg


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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XU9J4 rebuild questions-s16_sump1.jpg   XU9J4 rebuild questions-new-sump1.jpg   XU9J4 rebuild questions-windage-tray-extension.jpg   XU9J4 rebuild questions-trap-door-pump-baffle-2.jpg  
    Last edited by PeterT; 2nd April 2013 at 10:30 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Beats using a 286SX-16...


  17. #17
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    Thanks for the info, I will stick with the finned alloy sump with baffle fitted for the moment as I have that already in the current engine and cam swap it over. A question on the con rod bolts. Are they reusable? Can they be replaced with OEM or better ones? I tried to remove one and found it to be well stuck in the rod, and as such I did not force it out as I do not know if could be removed. I have the bottom end with an engine rebuilder for balancing. They required all the "rotating" parts - crank, rods, pistons, fly wheel, and harmonic balancer. Is this usual? As you can tell this engine rebuild stuff is not my comfort zone, but I want to learn, hopefully without making any costly mistakes

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    ARP make conrod bolt replacements. I know some are not fans of ARP: I've used them on literally hundreds of engines and never had problems, including my own 8v pug motor which admittedly has only done 8000km. You can get them through most speed shops- outlaws, Chris mills performance or if you have to Rocket who are useless. Otherwise try online. I wouldn't reuse the standard rod bolts: replace them with OEM if you don't like the idea of aftermarket.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
    2001 406 Monaco 5sp V6

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    You also need to Have the conrods resized as the bolts are interference fit and distort the big end bore when removed and refitted.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    For a 7100 limit engine I always reuse the standard rod bolts and always resize the rods. Rotating parts for balancing includes flywheel, pressure plate, harmonic balancer and all associated retaining bolts.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    For a 7100 limit engine I always reuse the standard rod bolts and always resize the rods. Rotating parts for balancing includes flywheel, pressure plate, harmonic balancer and all associated retaining bolts.
    Thanks Peter. I have a computer with 7500rpm limiter, but do not intend to use the extra rpm as this is a "fun" road car not a track day car. I just want to make the engine as good a one as my finances and skill will allow. Should I replace the big end nuts? (No jokes please )

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Lol..

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    Getting closer to the start of the re-assembly. A question on the liner seals. With the new sealants available these days do I use the "O" ring seals as per OEM, or a sealant? When I asked for a quote on price of the engine bits for the rebuild e.g. bearings, rings etc. I was informed quote "does not need liner seals" unquote. Not sure on this. Also do any of you replace the flywheel end main bearing cap side sealing strips? Can not find then as a replacement part. Or just leave them and maybe use some sealant in addition.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Yes, you will need liner seals. EAI sell them individually. If your liner seats are in good order you won't need any extra sealant. I add a smear of 1211 around the o-rings if in doubt. Obviously the liners then need to be clamped down and NOT disturbed again during the assembly process if you use any sealant.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    re. liner seals.
    From memory I think Peter T's recommendation is to use the liner seals as per oem, with the addition of a wipe of Threebond 1211. The liner seals are fairly easy to get a hold of. Caravelle have them.

    I'm replacing the bearing cap side sealing strips - but I cant comment on if this is necessary or not...? Bought them off an AFer too, so havent' investigated where to buy...

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