Paper water pump gaskets - sealant?
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  1. #1
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Default Paper water pump gaskets - sealant?

    What's the local wisdom - yay or nay for sealant?

    Have used the black Permatex (little bottle with a brush in the lid) previously without issue, but I'm out of it and was considering a smear of some high temp silicon I have.

    Then I noted a lot of folks saying to use them dry... Confused.

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    Am inclined to go and buy some more Permatex...

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I'd use permatex rather than a silicon base sealant.

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I'd use permatex rather than a silicon base sealant.

    Ditto, Permatex Non Hardening type. Ideal for alloy hose spouts to prevent corrosion.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    ...Ideal for alloy hose spouts to prevent corrosion.
    I've used telflon tape wound around the spigot instead of permatex, seems to work as well without the gooey mess.

    The yellow gas tape, which is a bit thicker is best.

    The same technique is also a good bodge for making male threaded fittings seal when pushed into and clamped to a hose. My water recycle system is full of such joints.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    ThreeBond 1211.

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Use water pump paper gaskets dry ? Never ! There are too many little irregularities which need filling in. Even a tiny bump or scrape across the mating surfaces WILL cause a leak after it's put on......sometimes even only at atmospheric pressure. Happens no matter how clean you think you've got the surface.
    It will cause you to think that the pump seal is defective.
    I had it happen 3 times before I swore to never do it again.
    For many years now I've been using high-temp silicone.....no probs.

  7. #7
    COL
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    I use paper gaskets smeared with grease so that they come apart easily, never had any leakage problems.
    Regards Col

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  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Supplied gasket is quite thick paper, almost squishy. So can imagine it might be ok dry.

    OE gasket was a rubber coated metal gasket - that goes in dry.

    Shall aquire some Permatex, it's good stuff. Has a glue like function silicon doesnt, just a very light smear.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post

    Shall aquire some Permatex, it's good stuff. Has a glue like function silicon doesnt, just a very light smear.
    It's only ok compared to ThreeBond 1211. It's not until you pull it apart that you'll appreciate its quality. Smear a light coating each side of the gasket.

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  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Threebond is a silicon sealant? Best one of those I've used is the orange stuff (dont make me go out to the shed to get its brand.. Think it might be a permatex).

    Got a good grey coloured Loctite brand silicone for the Xsara (EW10) sump which is a gasket free caper - that seemed pretty good for that application (hasn't leaked at any rate!).

    Am thinking though that silicon sealants on paper gaskets is not ideal - not convinced as yet it bonds all that well to paper.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I use paper gaskets smeared with grease so that they come apart easily, never had any leakage problems.
    Me too.

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    Ive tried and failed with silicone based sealants on water pumps and have gone back to old faithful 'gasket goo' smeared on both sides of the paper gasket. Just give it a good 24 hrs to dry before adding the coolant.


    Footnote: whatever sealant you use just make sure you don't get much down any blind holes or the bolts might not go all the way in (don't ask me how I know).
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I fit Mi16 thermostat housings direct to the head with just 1211.

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    COL
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    Its good to see all the different methods and products that people use, and also what works and what doesn't.
    Regards Col

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    Always used the permatex style gasket goo, but with a thick paper, the grease will also work too, and come apart as Col says, if I used grease, I'd do a light smear of silicone on the aluminium pump side or the engine side, silcone uslually stops alloy corrosion, so I use a smear around the outlet pipe where it contacts the hose. I find silicone great to use when alloy pipes are pitted with corrosion, wire brush them first to get rid of the active corrosion, then the silicone fills the hollows and prevents further corrosion. Use a good quality silicone sealer.

    Silicone without a paper gasket is an excellent sealer, but might be hard to remove the pump later!! As long as you have clearance on the impeller blades, silicone on its own is o.k. I wouldn't stress too much if I was out of gasket goo, though the last tin continues in use for the last 15 to 20 years....

    Ken

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Unlike most people who replace the water pumps, I seem to be changing engines and keeping the waterpump, so I grabbed the hylomar spray last time and nothing bad has happened.

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    There's silicon and there's silicon. The beauty of 1211 is how easy it releases from the surface at clean up time. You just rub it with your fingers and it peels off. Yet when under compression, it seals like nothing else. It was designed for sealing motorcycle gearbox cases, metal-metal under high vibration situations. Anyway, I'm not going to talk it up anymore. Try it and see.

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    There's silicon and there's silicon. The beauty of 1211 is how easy it releases from the surface at clean up time. You just rub it with your fingers and it peels off. Yet when under compression, it seals like nothing else. It was designed for sealing motorcycle gearbox cases, metal-metal under high vibration situations. Anyway, I'm not going to talk it up anymore. Try it and see.
    What brand is it Peter?
    Regards Col

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    Thanks Dino, I have a leak in the Alpine transaxle that will need fixing soon, so will try it on that.
    Regards Col

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    There's silicon and there's silicon. The beauty of 1211 is how easy it releases from the surface at clean up time. You just rub it with your fingers and it peels off. Yet when under compression, it seals like nothing else. It was designed for sealing motorcycle gearbox cases, metal-metal under high vibration situations. Anyway, I'm not going to talk it up anymore. Try it and see.
    All ThreeBond stuff is top shelf and price. Great for metal to metal.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yep. Threebond used here too. Recommended by a friend who runs metho dragsters and it's the only thing they use everywhere on the engine.

    For a run of the mill scenario though, oiling/greasing the gasket should be more than enough. Jo's Hylomar works too, no probs.

    There is also the silicone based grease (not to be confused with silicone sealants), really tacky stuff, never goes hard, resistant to high temp and pressures. Used in the food industry on their machinnery (food grade). Made by Dow Corning. Careful though, it doesn't wash off your hands with anything so you're just going to have sticky fingers for a while, hehehehe! (not soluble in water, oil or any petrol products, which is why it's so good around the engine).
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    Fellow Frogger! James504's Avatar
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    While some sealants seal better than others, the key is in the prep. Mating surfaces have to be spotless and free from any trace of oils. Paper gaskets and greasing them is very last century imo, but if it works for you do it. That said I have fitted many renault pumps with just the paper gasket and nothing else without incident. Permatex products (ultra grey, blue, black, with the exception of the aviation form-a-gasket which is required in certain applications) are useless and even worse to remove. Hondabond, Yamabond, Threebond etc pretty good. Wurth silikon spezial- ok at sealing but looks god awful in its fluro green and orange and a major pain to remove. But the best I have found so far is Loctite Instant gasket. It comes in a neat pressurised cylinder with a trigger. It's oe specified, Sets firm- but if you have the right tools cleanup is not a problem. I havent had anything that ive sealed with it come back leaking. But FWIW I have seen cylinder head camboxes sealed externally with selleys all clear bathroom silicone with no leaks- so what ever works really!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    silcone uslually stops alloy corrosion
    Probably one of the best reasons to use a silicone sealant for cooling system components.
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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James504 View Post
    ...But the best I have found so far is Loctite Instant gasket. It comes in a neat pressurised cylinder with a trigger. It's oe specified, Sets firm- but if you have the right tools cleanup is not a problem. I havent had anything that ive sealed with it come back leaking.
    Good to hear a reveiw of that stuff.
    I bought some (and its not cheap) and on the first squeeze of the trigger, the nozzle and shaft fell clean off, with no chance of ever working again. I got my money back and jut bought the usual permatex ultra black.
    So my first and only impressions of it was that it sucked.

    Might give it another go if the need arises.
    Whats its shelf life like, can you use it 6 month later or does the nozzle block??

    Jo

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