lets talk timing belts
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default lets talk timing belts

    I think the Pug 505 GTi came with out any reference to the timing belt. I could be wrong about that, I assume the earlier petrol 505's had chains and there was no mention of the timing belt for them either. I think peugeot settled on 100 thousand klics with no reference to time after some initial queries.

    Various marques seem to have different intervals but given that a car is driven often enough the belt would not get a chance to deteriorate from lack of use and total Klm would be the yard stick for when to change, plus some regard to how hard the car is used.

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    We have absorbed my mothers car (she is 88 and we don't want her driving, V6 front wheel drive) into the family car pool, it is 11 years old and done only 50 thou and I am wondering how long I can put the belt change off for? mechanics say change. I'd like to hang on longer, ignoring age and aim for a Klm based change.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I say just wait until it snaps a few teeth, then changing it it becomes really really easy whilst you have the head off.

    Jo

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    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    I say just wait until it snaps a few teeth, then changing it it becomes really really easy whilst you have the head off.

    Jo
    both heads Jo

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    both heads Jo
    Ah yes, a tasmanian car.

    Jo

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    Fellow Frogger! dieselman's Avatar
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    Default Re: lets talk timing belts

    A friend of mine has a Mazda 323 with over 300,000 km's and it's still on the original timing belt!
    Leon

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  6. #6
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    If it's a PRV V6 (assuming a 505), would it not have a timing chain?

    So far as I can tell, you haven't actually mentioned what type of car you've taken possession of.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    If it's a PRV V6 (assuming a 505), would it not have a timing chain?

    So far as I can tell, you haven't actually mentioned what type of car you've taken possession of.
    Lets talk timing belts SLC206, do you have a view on how far to push them, are you a stick to the book person, do you think 50 thou is not long enough, are you amazed by japanese car getting 300 thou, have you had a mis adventure with a timing belt, have you changed a timing belt, do you think it's worth risking another 50 thou Klms before changing?

    and my tone is completely jovial and for AFers it's a V6 front wheel drive .......... crikey dinners on

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    Fellow Frogger! rubyalpine's Avatar
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    I think time does play a part in the deterioration. Just look at tyres which similarly are rubber based with reinforcing. they usually start cracking up after about 10 years, sooner if left in the sun.

    Henry

  9. #9
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    Change it now!
    Why not?
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    Lets talk timing belts SLC206, do you have a view on how far to push them, are you a stick to the book person, do you think 50 thou is not long enough, are you amazed by japanese car getting 300 thou, have you had a mis adventure with a timing belt, have you changed a timing belt, do you think it's worth risking another 50 thou Klms before changing?

    and my tone is completely jovial and for AFers it's a V6 front wheel drive .......... crikey dinners on

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Change it now!
    Why not?
    Graham
    Yep that's my approach except I'm not going to do it myself and there is a limit to spending particularly if you sense that it might be a tad unnecessary. New tyres on the GTi , which we discussed, was a must, the old ones were all past it. This V6 needs at least two new 205/55 on 16", so I will get onto that in the next few weeks. The only person who said we were mad to risk it was a mechanic, so certainly inclined to push it a little. No big trips planned, so it will get city use every day.
    Last edited by tomb; 5th February 2013 at 04:57 PM. Reason: meaning

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Nah! It'll last another 11 years, probably 15. What the hell would your mechanic or the manufacturer know?
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    Nah! It'll last another 11 years, probably 15. What the hell would your mechanic or the manufacturer know?
    Picture this scenario, your a luxury car manufacturer and you build cars to sit on say 180kph on a (can I say) autobahn, and you have to decide the life span of the components being used under the bonnet. you know that a lot of you customer are going to drive faster than 180kph and some are going to be more sedate and sit on say 140kph. So you draw a line on time and klm for the timing belt.

    But hang on a little old lady buys your performance vehicle and gathers more shopping trolley dings than klm, while averaging 5000klm a year over a ten year period. The book says change the belt, were not disputing that, but would 100 thou be more appropriate for the use the vehicle is getting and various french marques use that milestone,

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    The mechanic would be the one who knows best, he sees the result of not changing belts everyday, I'd say get rid of the car if it is going to cost you money.
    Even 100k for a 505 sounds like pushing it, I thought it was 80k?
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    Yep that's my approach except I'm not going to do it myself and there is a limit to spending particularly if you sense that it might be a tad unnecessary. New tyres on the GTi , which we discussed, was a must, the old ones were all past it. This V6 needs at least two new 205/55 on 16", so I will get onto that in the next few weeks. The only person who said we were mad to risk it was a mechanic, so certainly inclined to push it a little. No big trips planned, so it will get city use every day.

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    The belt gets stressed more at low revs and they always break at idle because of the torque variations which are much greater at low speeds.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    Picture this scenario, your a luxury car manufacturer and you build cars to sit on say 180kph on a (can I say) autobahn, and you have to decide the life span of the components being used under the bonnet. you know that a lot of you customer are going to drive faster than 180kph and some are going to be more sedate and sit on say 140kph. So you draw a line on time and klm for the timing belt.

    But hang on a little old lady buys your performance vehicle and gathers more shopping trolley dings than klm, while averaging 5000klm a year over a ten year period. The book says change the belt, were not disputing that, but would 100 thou be more appropriate for the use the vehicle is getting and various french marques use that milestone,

  15. #15
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Ok, I think times like 11 years and 300k are very foolish intervals, but the car in question does matter.

    I seem to recall Astra and Barina (back when they were Opel products) belts were notorious and mechanics were recommending down to 40k intervals. The current crop of PSA diesels are 180k/9yrs, whereas the previous petrol versions have been 80k/4yrs for an age.

    There are obviously big variations, but this sort of "risk management" is a short term gain for long term pain.

    Like Graham said, ask mechanics that deal with this particular front wheel drive V6.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    The mechanic would be the one who knows best, he sees the result of not changing belts everyday, I'd say get rid of the car if it is going to cost you money.
    Even 100k for a 505 sounds like pushing it, I thought it was 80k?
    Graham
    Yeah I'm not sure, I have read 60k, 80k and 100k,, the GTi is due, around 90k so I will happily knock it over in winter, might even do the head if my boys can do without for a week+.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default quality comments

    Thanks Graham and Simon, I'm swinging back to getting it done. There is no down side to the belt failing though, just means I don't have to look after it any more.
    Last edited by tomb; 5th February 2013 at 06:08 PM. Reason: grammar

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    LETS TALK COMMONSENSE

    City driving, stop start and warmup cycle is far worse on timing belts and tensioners than long runs with continuous use.
    Apart from the unrecorded klm's during warming up with fast idle etc belts will need to be changed at regular intervals.

    I know, i have a 306 sitting here with a stuffed head due to a "d..k head" not doing the right thing!

    I suppose its a case of "easy come easy go" with no great loss !


    Alain
    Last edited by Alain; 5th February 2013 at 07:51 PM.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I purchased a 10 year old, 80,000km vehicle (non interference V6). The distance was certified.

    The first thing I did after taking delivery was to have the timing belt and tensioner and idler replaced.

    I will wait until 150 km for the water pump which looked fine.

    Some stuff you just have to do to have driving peace of mind and guaranteed reliability.

  20. #20
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    If it's a non-interference engine, I suppose it's feasible to just drive it until the belt snaps - though obviously inconvenient if it happens to let go in the middle of nowhere.

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    My 406 was 14 years old and 120,000 km when the belt was changed. The belt was still OK at least superficially, but the water pump was starting to leak, and wouldn't have lasted to another 120,000 km, neither would the belt. So the 120,000 km or 10 years rule bears some thinking about. Probably depends on how the car is driven at least to some extent.

    I dont know the history of the car before I got it but I would guess the journeys would have been mostly short distances. I've travelled 20,000 km in the past year and it's going like a steam train.

    While the cost was not insignificant I dont regret the expense, as the car is actually going much better than it did before, and I have piece of mind.

    A broken belt means heads off, new valves and possibly damaged pistons - might as well throw the motor away. Not much diffferent to a 505 GTI, really, but more expensive.
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut1 View Post
    A broken belt means heads off, new valves and possibly damaged pistons - might as well throw the motor away. Not much diffferent to a 505 GTI, really, but more expensive.
    You can be lucky.
    I was when I had a fuego belt bust after a long fang uphill, sitting at the light cooking.
    Seeing this is a thread on 'talking timing belts' I'll note that it did not shred or do anything explosive, it just lost a few teeth at the crank pulley.
    Oil contamination might well have played a part.

    A new belt was put on and amazingly only one valve was slightly bent, enough to make a dozen clicks at start up, then disappear.
    I drove that motor for a bit longer before the car got written off.

    Jo

  23. #23
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    Whatever the car[4cyl] today will cost around $2500 plus if you break belt on an interference fit motor.V6 add some? more.

    Early V6 406 Pug engines were 120,000 k belt change.-Was it 6 year intervals?

    As you have not stated what make of car it is it is difficult for anyone to be really accurate advise.

    If you like playing Russian Roulette or Spin the Chamber just keep driving it.Personally I hate gambling.

    Your Call.

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    Fellow Frogger! craigos's Avatar
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    Touchy subject! I was all set to do my Gti6 over the break but chickened out due to the whole timing/interference nature of the motor.

    It would be due around now on time but not kilometers traveled and the tensioner failed on Saturday morning within weeks of it being booked in.

    The engine was still running and the belt still in place but it sounded like someone had thrown a handful of 5c pieces into the top end.

    Fairly large kick in the nuts considering I had all the parts sitting there ready to go. Is there a French version of Murphy? Le Murphy?

    Just waiting to hear from the mechanic now regarding the extent of the damage. Hopefully the belt remaining in-situ has saved some destruction.

    The mechanic said that it's very rarely the belt that fails but something else failing that takes the belt out with it.
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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    That's really tough craigos.

    It is really a question of which determination rules: time or distance.

    On time it's well overdue on distance it is due now.

    On a quote of $1500 plus gst and a time interval of 4 years, crikey that is an expensive car to run. Put it on a distance rule of 50k, well that is one timing belt every ten years for this car, not so bad. 100k and it probably never gets done.

    Not much wrong with the car internally and sweet under the bonnet, but hardly a panel without a knock or scrap, street value if I could find a buyer, 5 if belt not done, maybe 8 to 10 if belt done and some cosmetic improvement to panels. Needs some new tyres.

    Pekay not gambling just hoping to put it off a little longer, but the opinion here is strongly on the get it done side, except for dieselmans japanese wonder story.

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