engine oil temperature?
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  1. #1
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    Default engine oil temperature?

    Since I have had the engine (XU10J4) out of the Mi16 the engine oil temperature seems to be running high. it often runs at around 140 degrees on the guage where I remember it used to rund around 100 degrees unless it was pushed..when it would get up to 120 or so..

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    Work done includes taking the head off and doing the valves, new cambelt, water pump, seals on crank and cams, etc.

    Water temp seems to be normal.

    Any ideas anyone?

    Trevor

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Is the wiring good, and gauge trustworthy?

    Try shooting the temp with a pyrometer.

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Sensor probe at the rear engine in the sump. Could be faulty or as Addo says, wiring could have fried as it's below the exhaust manifold.
    Last edited by pgti6; 30th December 2012 at 04:02 PM.
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    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    With oil temp that high then it will blacken very quickly! Hottest I've ever gotten a Pug motor was 145C after flogging a 205GTi around the Nurburgring. (Got to love rental vehicles!)
    If it's really that high when you pull the dipstick smoke is bound to issue, Group N rally cars are prone to this with mineral oils.
    I'd be checking the resistance of the circuit involved and the condition of the wiring and conections, hopefully the answer can be found in the manual regarding resistance reading v temperature.

    Brendan

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    Thanks guys. Brendan do you have access to info on the temp curve for the sensor? there's certainly nothing like that in the Haynes manual that I can find.. Except a circuit diagram which shows the sensor with a single wire and that looks like it is fitted to the front of the sump.
    It occurs to me that there is an oil cooler associated with the oil filter with a cooling water feed from the radiator so I will check that that is clear.

    Cheers..

    Trevor

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    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Clean out the oil cooler as it's 'easy' and unless you have a severe Oopps! then it should be sweet. The real trick is the the temp curve, unless it's a VDO and therefore accessible information, or not.
    Unlike a water sensor where it's a High school science experiment to check out what's happening. Doing an Oil sensor is similar but more risky. The temperatures are higher, we are now talking up to 180-200C so you are using oil as a heating medium (Rice Bran Oil?) and have to use something a bit more rugged than Mum's sugar thermometer, digital pyrometer. Have even used brake fluid when the temperatures get serious, greater than 200C but check the upper temp limit before use.

    If trying this at home do it outside and with a large fire extinguisher at hand. Brake fluid actually does burn so watch out if a naked flame is present.

    Brendan

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Oil temp sensor is on the front of the sump on an XU10.

    180-200C is farcical.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Pulled the oil cooler off today. Water flow is fine.. Oil flow seems to be fine.. Still gets oil temp showing around 140 degrees after about 8 Km admittedly hard driving. Sensor measures 225 Ohms resistance while meter shows about 130 degrees. No noticeable smoke from dipstick or filler cap. Sump feels hot but not sizzling to touch.

    Anyone got manuals with diagnostic info about this sensor?

    Trevor

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    What happens (ie; what reading is obtained) if you extend the sensor plug and dangle a spare sensor in the kettle while it boils?

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    Checked the cold resistance of the sensor this morning - 2.75K Ohms. Had the realisation that the only oil that gets cooled in the oil cooler is the oil that goes through the oil filter. My experience with vacuum cleaner bags suggested it would be worth replacing the filter to get maximum flow so I have changed the oil and filter. Did not have time to test this but will post more info when I have..

    Trevor

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    I have been on a couple of long runs ( 40+ km each way) and the temp guage hovers just under 140 degrees sitting on 100 Km/hr on open roads. It gets up over 140 degrees if pushed or when climbing the 8 Km and 250 m climb from Boolarra to home at Boolarra South. Today was pretty cool and the temp was still the same.

    I did check the water flow through the oil cooler but not the flow from the cooler to the engine. Will check that tomorrow.

    Trevor

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    Checked the flow from the thermostat housing to the radiator through the oil cooler by blowing through it .. it seems to be good. No apparent restriction to flow. it was easy to blow bubbles in the bottom of the radiator by blowing into the hose on the thermostat.
    Today, a hot day, I had oil temperatures indicated at or around 140 degrees and higher at times. Water temp is normal. When oil is hot and showing 140 degrees indicators and brakes ( when approching a corner to turn) move the needle from 140 to the next mark. into the red..? which suggests to me an electrical involvement. Does anyone have decent wiring diagrams for S2 405 that could help me figuring this out. The ones in Haynes 1559 are pretty limited. I will check the E050 earth point that is used for indicators and brake lights..
    Or does anyone have any suggestions as to possible causes or ways of diagnosing this apparent overheating of the engine oil?
    Should I just try to get another oil cooler and/or temperature sender from the wreckers and see what that does? Or is there something I can look at behind the dash?
    I guess I could drain the oil, remove the sensor and dunk it in near boiling water and check what the guage registers as a form of calibration.. Any other ideas? I am not keen to go down the hot oil path as the only way to usefully test this is to do it under the car which I think very risky..

    All suggestions welcome

    Trevor

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    Hi Trevor

    I would first check the accuracy of your gauge. By doing like you said accept I would use oil and a thermometer that reads similar range to your gauge, this way you can check the calibration of the gauge through its whole range. After doing this you should be able to see the direction needed which most likely will be new sensor if reading incorrectly.
    Hope this helps.
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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    Sensor probe at the rear engine in the sump. Could be faulty or as Addo says, wiring could have fried as it's below the exhaust manifold.
    The sensor wire on my xu9 was shot, all but two of the wire strands has broken through. I was surprised it had been working.

  15. #15
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    I agree, 140C is too high. 120C should be the max. Especially with a turbo charger.

    I have a Citroen XM and was undecided about the merits of the original oil/ water cooler.
    Or is it intended to be an oil heater?
    If PSA's idea is to cool 100C oil with 90C water then I can't see it being much of a cooler. If however the idea is to heat the oil quickly in cold climes then it has a lot of merit.

    I ebayed an external oil/ outside air cooler, sandwich plate adapter and hoses and fitted them. A dedicated 7inch thermo controlled fan completes the installation and my oil stays below 100C

    engine oil temperature?-cooler-fan.jpgengine oil temperature?-oil-cooler1.jpgengine oil temperature?-sandwichplate1.jpg

  16. #16
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    Do you remember where you got the adaptor Chimbu? or how you found it? What did you search for?

    Trevor

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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    I wonder if an adaptor like that is available to replace the dreaded "donut" oil "cooler" on ZF 4HP 14 equiped cars?
    There have been reports of these heat exchanger "donuts" corroding inside and dumping water into the trans with disasterous results.
    If an adaptor could be bolted on in place, a conventional oil cooler could be used. Wouldn't need to have the filter but could be handy.
    Paul.

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    check wire for any damage/possible leaks to earth.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Apart from all the above suggestions which all have merit, the lazy approach I would take would be:

    1. check temperature with a 20$ infrared gauge from Jaycar/similar. These may not be very accurate (a bit more money will buy you one that is very accurate) but in this case they are totally independent as a system to all other factors to do with your car (electrics/wiring/ground, etc) and this is the main point of this exercise. I am confident to say the value indicated will be a very good approximation of the real temperature of your oil. Try to measure right next to the sender, or even better on the metal part of the sender itself.

    2. If the above shows a completely different (and I suspect more normal) value, try to run a ground from the battery directly on the outside of the sensor in the sump, and check what the dash dial reads then. You might be surprised.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Apart from all the above suggestions which all have merit, the lazy approach I would take would be:

    1. check temperature with a 20$ infrared gauge from Jaycar/similar. These may not be very accurate (a bit more money will buy you one that is very accurate)
    Note that its difficult to get a good Ir reading from aluminium.
    Give it a quick spray of flat black acrylic paint if you want accuracy. Wipe it off with thinners after, or leave it there to blend in with the oil leaks.

    Jo

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Default engine oil temperature?

    Why not unscrew the sensor from the sump and place it in a tin of boiling water? Add flame to maintain boiling point if desired. Don't forget to earth the sensor.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Note that its difficult to get a good Ir reading from aluminium.
    Give it a quick spray of flat black acrylic paint if you want accuracy. Wipe it off with thinners after, or leave it there to blend in with the oil leaks.

    Jo
    Meh.

    Jo - always over engineering something. Just put a dot with a black marker if you're really concerned and measure on that. My money says the readings (with dot and without dot) will be within 5% which is probably better than the gauge precision anyway.

    I use those thermometers all the time on my little RC cars to temp the motors (which are aluminium cased) and they are accurate enough that I never burnt out any motor.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Note that its difficult to get a good Ir reading from aluminium.
    Give it a quick spray of flat black acrylic paint if you want accuracy. Wipe it off with thinners after, or leave it there to blend in with the oil leaks.

    Jo
    This is why shiny surfaces give inaccurate readings.

    http://www.electro-optical.com/eoi_p...%20Emissivity?
    Regards Col

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Why not unscrew the sensor from the sump and place it in a tin of boiling water? Add flame to maintain boiling point if desired. Don't forget to earth the sensor.

    Because it involves actual work, something we, french car owners would frown upon.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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