How much powahhhhh can it take? 505
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! sideways_505's Avatar
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    Default How much powahhhhh can it take? 505

    Hey guys.

    Like most, I've always wanted more power from my 505 GTi. Previously I wanted to rebuild and turbo the original motor (ZDJL) or import/find a R21 turbo motor and mod/rebuild it but that still leaves me with the rather weak ba7/5, a ba10/5 with a Douvrin bellhousing seems to be made of unobtainium and boosted ZDJLs always seem to eat headgaskets. An engine/gearbox conversion seems to be the way to go, if not for nothing else because I'm sick to death of staying up to 2am most nights trying to find basic (let alone aftermarket) parts for all the obscure cars/engines I own.

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    So basically, how much power can the 505 sedan rear end take? Is the quaife LSD much of a strength improvement?

    What have people done about the torque tube rear end?

    Thanks

    Hayden
    1985 S2 505 GTi. Someone please sell me an S2 drivers side front 1/4 panel so I can get this on the road again.
    1985 S1 505 SRi. Parts car.
    1957 403 sedan. Aka Ruby.
    1979&81 Suzuki LJ81s.
    1980 Suzuki LJ80V.
    1981 Suzuki SJ40 Sierra.
    2000 Suzuki Jimny.

  2. #2
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    If you get rid of the torque tube rear end you may as well go all the way and get a Commodore.
    Plenty of BA10 Douvrin boxes were made, just not in this country and I guess O/S they have largely been thrown out.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by sideways_505 View Post
    Hey guys.

    Like most, I've always wanted more power from my 505 GTi. Previously I wanted to rebuild and turbo the original motor (ZDJL) or import/find a R21 turbo motor and mod/rebuild it but that still leaves me with the rather weak ba7/5, a ba10/5 with a Douvrin bellhousing seems to be made of unobtainium and boosted ZDJLs always seem to eat headgaskets. An engine/gearbox conversion seems to be the way to go, if not for nothing else because I'm sick to death of staying up to 2am most nights trying to find basic (let alone aftermarket) parts for all the obscure cars/engines I own.

    So basically, how much power can the 505 sedan rear end take? Is the quaife LSD much of a strength improvement?

    What have people done about the torque tube rear end?

    Thanks

    Hayden

  3. #3
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    There is a twin turbo V6 505 owned by a Pug club member. It has a standard 505 rear end with LSD and from memory more than 240kW at the wheels. Is that enough for you?
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! sideways_505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    There is a twin turbo V6 505 owned by a Pug club member. It has a standard 505 rear end with LSD and from memory more than 240kW at the wheels. Is that enough for you?
    More than enough! Do you know if they used a Quaife or OEM LSD? What gearbox did they have?

    I'd love to go down the turbo V6 path, it's certainly a logical conversion for a 505.
    1985 S2 505 GTi. Someone please sell me an S2 drivers side front 1/4 panel so I can get this on the road again.
    1985 S1 505 SRi. Parts car.
    1957 403 sedan. Aka Ruby.
    1979&81 Suzuki LJ81s.
    1980 Suzuki LJ80V.
    1981 Suzuki SJ40 Sierra.
    2000 Suzuki Jimny.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The same rear diff is used in 405 T16's. 500+hp is not uncommon.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways_505 View Post
    More than enough! Do you know if they used a Quaife or OEM LSD? What gearbox did they have?

    I'd love to go down the turbo V6 path, it's certainly a logical conversion for a 505.
    Sideways,

    It runs a quaife diff, and a build up auto. As the manual boxes don't do boost.

    Have a look at some videos of it. also there videos of a 504 v6 manual running a quaife diff.

    http://contour.com/users/enforcermike

    Mike
    1972 504 Ti

  7. #7
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever seen the back end of a 504/505/604 damaged from too much power. Usually it's from lack of oiling. Even then, they're very tolerant. The LSD in my wagon went 20,000km without any oil, so I stripped it down and resealed it, and the insides were perfect.

    If you want to stick with the torque tube arrangement (which you should!), there are a couple of options.
    • Keep with a standard Peugeot gearbox. Use an adapter plate between it and the engine if necessary, or use an engine that fits a trimatic gearbox (Holden 202, Holden 253, Rover V8) and use a 604 transmission.
    • Modify the back of another gearbox to suit the torque tube. There are threads on the forum on doing this, and I have pictures of the back of the Toyota Supra W58 box that I modified for the V6.
    • Buy my ZEJ BA10 gearbox and/or bellhousing. Though I still might want to use it. Hrmm. Be aware though that the Z engine bellhousings were built for cable clutches, so you might have to modify the bellhousing to work with a hydraulic clutch.
    • Just boost the ZDJL. There's been a few done and the gearboxes seem to last fine, so long as they're in good condition to start with. And headgaskets should be a problem if you use a copper head gasket and O-ring the liners - very easy to do with removable liners!


    The Quaife diffs are going to be stronger than the standard Peugeot diff, but you're still looking at a lot of torque and probably some rather mechanically unsympathetic driving to upset them. The Peugeot LSDs that we got in Australia are no stronger or weaker than the standard open diffs. The load bearing components are identical.

    It would be great to see another hi-po 505 out there!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  8. #8
    con
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways_505 View Post
    More than enough! Do you know if they used a Quaife or OEM LSD? What gearbox did they have?

    I'd love to go down the turbo V6 path, it's certainly a logical conversion for a 505.

    OEM LSD and a Trimatic from a 604: And he is not the only one with a Trimatic behind the PRV v6. How do I know? I also have one!


    con...
    Last edited by con; 29th October 2012 at 09:32 PM.

  9. #9
    IWS
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    There is a twin turbo V6 505 owned by a Pug club member. It has a standard 505 rear end with LSD and from memory more than 240kW at the wheels. Is that enough for you?
    When I was a member of the Pug club (when I owned Pugs) I recall there was a member - Robert Cherry - whose primary focus seemed to be engine power. It may well have been he who was owner of the turbo V6 505?

    Ian,

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    I can tell you that red turbo 505 went past me out of Southern loop at Phillip Island, I was doing about 150ks and he left solid parallel strips of black rubber on the road in the process. STORMIN is about the best description for it, not bad for an auto!
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  11. #11
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    I had a BA10/5 box behind a ZEJ engine and it did have a hydraulic clutch, I remember having a lot of trouble bleeding it!
    This set up was from France so LH drive car I guess.
    As it turned out the box was stuffed as was the engine, I don't think the French looked after their 505s.
    Graham


    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    I don't think I've ever seen the back end of a 504/505/604 damaged from too much power. Usually it's from lack of oiling. Even then, they're very tolerant. The LSD in my wagon went 20,000km without any oil, so I stripped it down and resealed it, and the insides were perfect.

    If you want to stick with the torque tube arrangement (which you should!), there are a couple of options.
    • Keep with a standard Peugeot gearbox. Use an adapter plate between it and the engine if necessary, or use an engine that fits a trimatic gearbox (Holden 202, Holden 253, Rover V8) and use a 604 transmission.
    • Modify the back of another gearbox to suit the torque tube. There are threads on the forum on doing this, and I have pictures of the back of the Toyota Supra W58 box that I modified for the V6.
    • Buy my ZEJ BA10 gearbox and/or bellhousing. Though I still might want to use it. Hrmm. Be aware though that the Z engine bellhousings were built for cable clutches, so you might have to modify the bellhousing to work with a hydraulic clutch.
    • Just boost the ZDJL. There's been a few done and the gearboxes seem to last fine, so long as they're in good condition to start with. And headgaskets should be a problem if you use a copper head gasket and O-ring the liners - very easy to do with removable liners!


    The Quaife diffs are going to be stronger than the standard Peugeot diff, but you're still looking at a lot of torque and probably some rather mechanically unsympathetic driving to upset them. The Peugeot LSDs that we got in Australia are no stronger or weaker than the standard open diffs. The load bearing components are identical.

    It would be great to see another hi-po 505 out there!

  12. #12
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I had a BA10/5 box behind a ZEJ engine and it did have a hydraulic clutch, I remember having a lot of trouble bleeding it!
    This set up was from France so LH drive car I guess.
    As it turned out the box was stuffed as was the engine, I don't think the French looked after their 505s.
    Graham
    I stand corrected then! I believe mine came from an NZ car. Interestingly the pivot point inside the bellhousing is in a completely different place to the hydraulic ones, it looks like it would limit the theoretical throw of the thrust bearing compared to the hydraulic setup.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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