Oil in 504 air filter
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Bad Bertie's Avatar
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    Default Oil in 504 air filter

    I noticed oil dripping from the flue of the air filter and I had a look and there is almost a centimetre of oil at the bottom of the filter unit. The filter is made from what looks like shredded metal. The BX's I owned with the foam filters had to be kept oily, but this one seems to be a bit over the top?

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    COL
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    Hi Bertie

    Is it engine oil in the filter? If it is, it could be caused by excessive blow by.

    Whats the oil level like in the sump? has it lowered since you checked it last time?
    Regards Col

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    Or it could just be that the Pug has a really true oil bath air filter. As fitted by the factory. If maintained correctley the engine receives near 100% clean grot free air.....Check the owners manual!

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bertie View Post
    I noticed oil dripping from the flue of the air filter and I had a look and there is almost a centimetre of oil at the bottom of the filter unit. The filter is made from what looks like shredded metal. The BX's I owned with the foam filters had to be kept oily, but this one seems to be a bit over the top?
    This is correct. The air being drawn over the oil is a pre-filter system. The large lumps "stick" in the oil. The oiled gauze is the second part of the filtration. And a bloody good and simple system it is.

    You will notice the the bottom part of the filter has a plate . The oil level is correct when the plate "minimum" is just covered and the mark "maximum is not covered. Use standard engine oil.

    At every service the filter housing and gauze should be cleaned by immersing in a container of petrol and swilling around, then "blow" dried with compressed air. The gauze should be saturated, until it hold no more, with clean engine oil. The reservoir needs to refilled as mentioned above.

    You should check the large "o" ring between the housing and gauze unit to ensure sealing, as well as all the hoses/ rubber carby adaptor to insure the the induction system into the filter is completely sealed.

    Air leaks will let "dirty" air into the engine which has caused the demise of many XN series engines.

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    COL
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    Hi Bertie

    I forgot these cars have an oil bath air filter.

    If you don't have a manual you can down load one from here http://www.504.org/technic_GB.htm
    Regards Col

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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Bad Bertie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Bertie

    Is it engine oil in the filter? If it is, it could be caused by excessive blow by.

    Whats the oil level like in the sump? has it lowered since you checked it last time?
    No, it does not seem to have lowered.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Bad Bertie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Bertie

    I forgot these cars have an oil bath air filter.

    If you don't have a manual you can down load one from here http://www.504.org/technic_GB.htm
    Thank you very much Col.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Bad Bertie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    This is correct. The air being drawn over the oil is a pre-filter system. The large lumps "stick" in the oil. The oiled gauze is the second part of the filtration. And a bloody good and simple system it is.

    You will notice the the bottom part of the filter has a plate . The oil level is correct when the plate "minimum" is just covered and the mark "maximum is not covered. Use standard engine oil.

    At every service the filter housing and gauze should be cleaned by immersing in a container of petrol and swilling around, then "blow" dried with compressed air. The gauze should be saturated, until it hold no more, with clean engine oil. The reservoir needs to refilled as mentioned above.

    You should check the large "o" ring between the housing and gauze unit to ensure sealing, as well as all the hoses/ rubber carby adaptor to insure the the induction system into the filter is completely sealed.

    Air leaks will let "dirty" air into the engine which has caused the demise of many XN series engines.
    Thank you rob for all the info. The engine is also a bit tappetty which I thought may have caused the excess oil? Otherwise the engine is nice and strong.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bertie View Post
    Thank you rob for all the info. The engine is also a bit tappetty which I thought may have caused the excess oil? Otherwise the engine is nice and strong.
    The filter has probably been overfilled. Or one of the filter to tappet cover brackets has broken off and torn a hole in the housing. This is very common on 404s which use the same style style of filter. This causes the oil in the filter to dribble over the tappet cover.

    XN engines can be are tappety for a few reasons. The valves are suffering recession due running on ULP fuel. The valve gear (cam followers as well) are worn due to high revving and infrequent oil changes. The tappets just need adjusting.

    Take off the tappet cover and look inside. If their a heavy crusty build up of crud and wax then it could be a lack of maintenance issue.

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The filter has probably been overfilled. Or one of the filter to tappet cover brackets has broken off and torn a hole in the housing. This is very common on 404s which use the same style style of filter. This causes the oil in the filter to dribble over the tappet cover.

    XN engines can be are tappety for a few reasons. The valves are suffering recession due running on ULP fuel. The valve gear (cam followers as well) are worn due to high revving and infrequent oil changes. The tappets just need adjusting.


    Take off the tappet cover and look inside. If their a heavy crusty build up of crud and wax then it could be a lack of maintenance issue.

    Rob,
    All your answers get the big tick from me. But..[I]"valve seat recession due to ULP fuels" ? [/I Valve seat recession causes tappet clearances to close up.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Rob,
    All your answers get the big tick from me. But..[I]"valve seat recession due to ULP fuels" ? [/I Valve seat recession causes tappet clearances to close up.
    Valve seat recession of the worst kind can cause valve seats to become loose in the head. When tappets are adjusted, they can loose adjustment due to the seats moving.

    I've seen it happen in old clunker Holdens, in fact I had a valve seat fall out of the head and wedge a valve.

    I take your point that it's not the normal symptom of VSR.

    But , after all, nothing is straightforward of AF.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Bad Bertie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The filter has probably been overfilled. Or one of the filter to tappet cover brackets has broken off and torn a hole in the housing. This is very common on 404s which use the same style style of filter. This causes the oil in the filter to dribble over the tappet cover.

    XN engines can be are tappety for a few reasons. The valves are suffering recession due running on ULP fuel. The valve gear (cam followers as well) are worn due to high revving and infrequent oil changes. The tappets just need adjusting.

    Take off the tappet cover and look inside. If their a heavy crusty build up of crud and wax then it could be a lack of maintenance issue.
    I have already soaked up some oil with a rag and will keep an eye on it. The previous owner did use a fuel additive for the ULP but I have not been using it as I have been told so many times it is not needed in the old Pugs and old Citroens for that matter as they have hardened seals. Is this correct?
    Last edited by Bad Bertie; 22nd October 2012 at 04:42 PM. Reason: typo

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Bad Bertie's Avatar
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    I just found my 504 owners manual. I do have this Oil Bath Air Filter in my car fitted as an option in certain countries. Then it goes on by saying , every 5000 km, Remove the filter element and rinse using diesel oil ( diesel oil!) It should be re-fitted after drip drying. - Clean the bowl. - Pour engine oil into the bowl, up to the"LEVEL" mark, (260 cc app.). So there it is.

  14. #14
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    Definitely not, you need to use Valvemaster or Flash Tube, plenty of people have suffered valve seat recession in early Peugeots.
    First Peugeot to have hardened seats was 1982 505.
    Will be OK for short trips around town but any sustained cruising you will need to use additive or get hardened exhaust seats fitted,
    The inlet and exhaust valves and inlet seats are OK as is.
    Graham
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bertie View Post
    I have already soaked up some oil with a rag and will keep an eye on it. The previous owner did use a fuel additive for the ULP but I have not been using it as I have been told so many times it is not needed in the old Pugs and old Citroens for that matter as they have hardened seals. Is this correct?

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    1000+ Posts Bad Bertie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Definitely not, you need to use Valvemaster or Flash Tube, plenty of people have suffered valve seat recession in early Peugeots.
    First Peugeot to have hardened seats was 1982 505.
    Will be OK for short trips around town but any sustained cruising you will need to use additive or get hardened exhaust seats fitted,
    The inlet and exhaust valves and inlet seats are OK as is.
    Graham
    Ok, I shall use the additive then,thank you for that. And my 404 ute with a 505 engine should be ok without it?

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    or use a tin canister
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    Yes.
    Also, use proper valve seat additive, upper cylinder lubricant won't do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bertie View Post
    Ok, I shall use the additive then,thank you for that. And my 404 ute with a 505 engine should be ok without it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    or use a tin canister
    Groan.
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    with this oil in the air filter, what would be the worst thing about changing it out for a different aftermarket version with out the oil catch, i have a mod in progress but the air filter is in the way and need it to move right about 80mm, but there is no room, and the filter is to large, but dont want to get rid of the factory unit.

    would anybody recommend an aftermarket style pod air(only) filter for australian city suburb driving, its not like im in the desert and will prob never take it off road again,

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    with this oil in the air filter, what would be the worst thing about changing it out for a different aftermarket version with out the oil catch, i have a mod in progress but the air filter is in the way and need it to move right about 80mm, but there is no room, and the filter is to large, but dont want to get rid of the factory unit.

    would anybody recommend an aftermarket style pod air(only) filter for australian city suburb driving, its not like im in the desert and will prob never take it off road again,

    Leftcoast,
    You could fit the alternative dry element "thermos" type filter from the later 504.

    Bad Bertie,
    Your engine breathing system may be clogged, check the gauzes in the oil filler spout also the vacuum fitting at the manifold.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I'll have a look for some images.

    It is possible to fit a dry filter inside the existing 404/504 oil bath case.

    It's necessary to drill a hole in the top and cut an aluminium disk for the bottom and use a piece of all thread to clamp the filter into the existing case.

  22. #22
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    Its the case not the type of filtering that is his problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I'll have a look for some images.

    It is possible to fit a dry filter inside the existing 404/504 oil bath case.

    It's necessary to drill a hole in the top and cut an aluminium disk for the bottom and use a piece of all thread to clamp the filter into the existing case.

  23. #23
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    Yeah changing it to just a pod filter would be ideal for room as id run a bent pipe with pod down behind the light, and keep all the factory vacume lines, guessing it shouldnt harm the engine ratios to much. I just have not seen it done before to an ti, and want to whey it up befor I start cutting and drilling

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    , what would be the worst case if blow by was to happen with a pod filter, I guess the original system was flawless in this aspect

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