504 Ti missing on load when hot
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  1. #1
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    Default 504 Ti missing on load when hot

    Hi Froggers, it is at the mechanics now, but if you have a suggestions from experience
    it only happens on load when hot (full operating temp)
    ie after driving 15km or so
    otherwise engine is fine
    Thanks
    Nickc

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Ignition would be my first port of call. Points, condenser, leads, dizzy cap, coil would be the order I'd check.

    Have fun,

    Rob.

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    Thx Rob. Forgot to mention that the car was with the mechanics last friday for the same thing but worse where they did the plugs & points, lead connection to coil was loose, dwell timing. Car was fine since until I took it on a longer trip (Kew to Eltham and back). Will advise report from mechanics on monday as they have it over the weekend as well. Nickc

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    Mine used to play up when hot if had the wrong heat range plugs.They have a different plug to the carby cars but a lot of the catalogues don't show that. A very hazy memory says that the TI plugs ended in 6 and the carby ones in 8??? Then as per Robs above. Neil

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    Fellow Frogger! stew's Avatar
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    What is usual is fuel starvation. Some things to check, or politely suggest to repairer,
    1/ Fuel filters. 1 near electric pump, one in engine bay cartridge, 1 in fuel delivery line banjo fitting bolt.
    2/ Fuel pump delivery failing due to worn brushes etc. in fuel pump.
    3/ The stupid ceramic fuse and holder can have a resistance in them. If it early I recall the 2nd from the bottom gets hot and separates. Cools and away you go. Replace with an in line fuse across the box.
    4/ Another usual occurrence is the points close up due to worn dist cam or shit rubbing block on points. Dwell is 57 on Ducellier, 52 on Bosch. Plug gap is 0.6mm. Also ignition leads may be loading the coil if the leads have small open circuits and coil overheats. Check inside coil high tension for oil or swollen boot on the coil lead. Clear overheating sign.
    5/ To measure fuel pressure access the delivery line at the pump and it needs to be at least 24 to 30 psi.
    6/ Alternator wiring from alternator to starter can be stuffed too, although you should notice the Volt gauge down in the red.
    I got sworn at once for not prewarning the long term owner of an LTi that the needle of the gauge with minus and plus signs needs to stay away from the minus other wise LTi stops. I don't suffer with those kind of fools any more! Too old. Isn't strange how d###heads stick in the memory?
    7/ If all else fails I'll dig up the Kugel Fischer bible. Perform the Ancient Ti Tribal fertility dance in full Track Yellow and Avocado regalia and that will fix it.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    make sure the coil is correct for the car

    you want 26thou plug gap and 14thou points gap

    these settings are what i found to be best for a TI
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    thx neil stew & PugRambo, I shall pass these on & advise thread of fix given
    NC

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    con
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    Quote Originally Posted by neil s View Post
    Mine used to play up when hot if had the wrong heat range plugs.They have a different plug to the carby cars but a lot of the catalogues don't show that. A very hazy memory says that the TI plugs ended in 6 and the carby ones in 8??? Then as per Robs above. Neil

    Very close Neil.

    From very limited experience, NGK BP6ES is usually used in carby models. BP5ES (a hotter plug) seems to be better for the Ti.


    con...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    make sure the coil is correct for the car

    you want 26thou plug gap and 14thou points gap

    these settings are what i found to be best for a TI
    Thx PR, what's that in metric?

    Nc

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    con,
    The plug numbering system can be confusing. NGK BP5ES are the "colder" plug. Perfomance versions of most engines will use a cold plug.

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    con
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    con,

    The plug numbering system can be confusing. NGK BP5ES are the "colder" plug. Perfomance versions of most engines will use a cold plug.
    Some manufacturers' numbering systems are opposite to others. For Champion, Autolite etc. the higher the number, the hotter the plug.

    For NGK, the higher the number, the colder the plug.


    http://www.ngkspark.com.au/sparkplug_tech.php#


    (see "Heat Range Explanation").



    con...
    Last edited by con; 22nd September 2012 at 09:59 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! stew's Avatar
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    Nup, the colder plug for NGK is 6.
    5 is hotter.

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    I defer to all re the NGK numbering.
    The old Bosch numbering system was a bit long winded. IE. The Bosch WI 175 were a common fit for most engines. The numbering advanced as the plug got colder. IE. WI 200. WI 225 and WI 240.
    I'm also sure the Champion numbering decreases as the plug gets colder. 504 Carb N9Y [C]. 504 TI N7Y [C] ?

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    Fellow Frogger! stew's Avatar
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    Vindicated.

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    Thx again. Car back on the road running very well again. Rear fuel filter replaced and fuel lines cleaned was what I'm told we're done to fix it. not sure why that affected the car only when hot. I will ask. Haven't checked the plugs numbering. Will do that too. Nick

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    Keep a spare firewall fuel filter (and a 10mm spanner) in your glove box.
    (The only thing that has ever let me down on any TI engined car I have ever owned is that bloody filter getting blocked.)
    205,405,505,306

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    thx JH
    i might do that

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    Quote Originally Posted by james h View Post
    Keep a spare firewall fuel filter (and a 10mm spanner) in your glove box.
    (The only thing that has ever let me down on any TI engined car I have ever owned is that bloody filter getting blocked.)
    the rear filter next to the pump will give in long before the firewall filter

    if the car coughs you can bet the rear filter is blocked

    the firewall filter should be changed every 15k from memory
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h View Post
    Keep a spare firewall fuel filter (and a 10mm spanner) in your glove box.
    (The only thing that has ever let me down on any TI engined car I have ever owned is that bloody filter getting blocked.)
    Same same....but the filter next to the fuel pump is worth changing first as it gets first gulp of the fuel

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    My first 504 in the early 90s still had its original Coil but it had lost its oil. Had a crack in the plastic top. It still looked OK but once it got hot, and it got really hot from memory, it started breaking down as you describe. Worth checking if you are trying to sort out ignition issues.

    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevhoare View Post
    My first 504 in the early 90s still had its original Coil but it had lost its oil. Had a crack in the plastic top. It still looked OK but once it got hot, and it got really hot from memory, it started breaking down as you describe. Worth checking if you are trying to sort out ignition issues.

    Trevor

    thx Trev
    the coil is newish
    I had a 2nd hand one put in recently by paris
    i did have major coil issues a while back when i had the wrong one installed by someone else
    burnt out the points within weeks repeatedly until diagnosed
    Major hassle
    there's oil in the coil?
    N

  23. #23
    con
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    Replace the capacitor (with correct "farads") as per Robs suggestion or there is a a tear in the diaphragm rubber of fuel pump (had same problem with the carby version of 504 - assuming the Ti is similar).



    con...

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    the car has been good since the repair (replacing the fuel filters)
    the reason for the missing only when hot was the rear fuel pump heating up trying to push fuel through the dirty filter(s)
    the hot engine was a red herring
    NC

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickc View Post
    the car has been good since the repair (replacing the fuel filters)
    the reason for the missing only when hot was the rear fuel pump heating up trying to push fuel through the dirty filter(s)
    the hot engine was a red herring
    NC
    heating up & struggling i assume

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