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Thread: S16 Rebuild

  1. #76
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    Default Decking for optimal quench height with thicker gasket

    Alrighty. Engine is out. There's a coupla progress piccies.

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    Some bg info on the setup
    Standard s16 crank, s16 standard rods, s16 standard bearings, wiseco forged pistons 86.5 (remade with same compression height 39.1mm as standard), deck skimmed once (not sure how much, might be able to look it up), and rebored to 86.5mm.

    PS: I'm no expert on this but am learning as much I can, so go easy.

    I took some measurements of what came out...

    Crank thrust end-play
    Acceptable range .07 - .27mm
    Actual 0.11mm - is good. (I have new thrust bearings anyway)

    Crank Journals
    Mains (60mm standard) - 59.97-59.99 - No ovality.
    Big Ends (50mm standard) - 49.99 - No ovality.

    Crank Bearing clearance
    Can't measure really... don't have a bore dial gauge or calipers with round ends to measure bearing shell thickness...But will be replacing them with standards and will torque up the new ones and plasticguage it and fingers crossed the clearance is spot on...

    Piston to deck clearance - Measured .7mm, so I'm guessing it was skimmed .3mm?
    What's the standard clearance for this, 1mm? Is that right (calculations below, correct me if I'm wrong)...

    Std centre of crank to deck height is 235.1mm
    86mm crank
    43mm (half stroke) plus
    152mm rod length centre to centre plus
    piston compression height = 39.1mm
    Standard deck height of 1mm.

    Now, I was running a 1.3mm gasket, and for the rebuild I have a cometic 1.778mm (0.7") gasket, so 0.478 higher.

    The thought was that with this rebuild to increase compression with decking the block 1mm, but now it looks like I should only do it .7mm (to get it flat/neutral at TDC) - but now I've gained extra height in gasket (which means quench height is increased), not entirely sure how much to deck it...

    This may sound dumb, but if I have a negative piston clearance (pistons protruding above the deck), won't it start hitting the gasket?

    How far do I deck it with the thicker gasket to get the higher compression and perfect quench height??

    Thanks guys...
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  2. #77
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Bore of the gasket will probably be 87.00, so you could stick the piston above the deck. I would only deck the block another 0.7mm and keep it at 11:1 with a standard 1.3mm gasket. ie don't use the thick one.

    The standard squish height is 1.0mm.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Bore of the gasket will probably be 87.00, so you could stick the piston above the deck. I would only deck the block another 0.7mm and keep it at 11:1 with a standard 1.3mm gasket. ie don't use the thick one.

    The standard squish height is 1.0mm.
    Gotcha....I hate when I've spent money on a part that's superior, to then not use it...oh well... anyone want to buy a cometic XU10 gasket...

    I'll measure the diameter of the gasket just in case... but from what I saw last night eyeballing the piston against the gasket, it seemed pretty tight, and I imagine the piston crown expands a bit when it's hot which makes me nervous.

  4. #79
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    Guys, my oil cooler is pretty shagged (lots of rusting in rust in the pipes from water (not coolant) sitting in there for a few months of inactivity.

    What are your thoughts on hunting one down, running the rusty one, or upgrading to something better for the increasinly hotter summers (I've seen those mocal kits floating on ebay...). I do push the car, but only road, but doing this rebuild super proper so I have something quick + reliable...

    What I've done/have installed so far as part of the rebuild I started this year:
    Wiseco Forged pistons
    Decked the block to flush piston clearance TDC
    Peter T Stage 1 inlet camshaft + .5 exhaust cam + #3 inlet pulley
    Gearbox > Quaife LSD installed + new bearings, new seals all round, including the tube bush.
    New Valeo Clutch Kit to go in.
    New Vibratechnics engine mounts and P bushes, (I always struggle installing those things without a press) + new ball joints, arb bushings, powerflex sway arm bushings, and baker BM gearbox mount pivot bushing +_ eibachs.
    New driveshaft carrier bearing + bush installed (isn't that bush a lot of fun...).
    Refurbed the alternator (new brushes + bearings), Reburbed the starter motor (cleaned more than anything, brushes were good), throttle body etc,
    New Fuel pressure reg, sensors etc.
    New big end+main bearings
    Lightweight SPOOX crank-pulley
    Plus a bunch more.

  5. #80
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    I've managed to snap a second ring getting the bugger off (yes, I'm an idiot).

    The block has been decked recently but the cylinders and rings were left as is (rebore/new rings was only 30K ago), hence using original rings.

    Two Questions...

    1) I'm running old rings, how much of an issue is it if I have one new second ring (oil scraper) in the mix?
    1) Anyone know where I can get a replacement one... Attached is the wiseco sizing...

    IMG_0624.jpg

  6. #81
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    No issue I suspect

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    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
    306 convertible (gti6 candidate)
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  7. #82
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    I hate inches, but anyway they look like 1, 1.25 and 2.75,

    I have nearly new j4R rings here that might suite but they come in at 1.5, 1.75 and 3 mm

    One bent rod will do that to you, I need to defer to someone who knows the s16 motor to verify
    Last edited by Matthew; 21st May 2020 at 04:05 PM.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
    306 convertible (gti6 candidate)
    307 HDi wagon
    407 HDi wagon

  8. #83
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I think you'll find they're XX rings. ie Google 8650XX or look in the Total Seal catalogue.
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    Last edited by PeterT; 21st May 2020 at 11:10 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  9. #84
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    Yeah I hate inches too... it's for a bore of 86.5mmm - Thanks Peter, I'll give that a google. Thanks once again.

  10. #85
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    Serco motorsports here in Brisbane stocked my 8350xx rings try locally making sure the ring height is correct for your S16 ie 1, 1.2 and 2.8mm

    Go Wiseco they are 2/3 at least of what you need

    86.50mm Single Piston Rings by Wiseco
    Wiseco Sport compact kits include the high quality NPR XX rings, which are the best quality steel nitrided top rings and napier style 2nd rings. 3-Piece oil ring.

    Features
    86.50mm Bore
    1.0mm Steel Nitrided Top Ring
    1.2mm Napier Second Ring
    3-Piece Oil Ring (no dimension but you don't need this)
    Last edited by Matthew; 22nd May 2020 at 08:09 PM.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
    306 convertible (gti6 candidate)
    307 HDi wagon
    407 HDi wagon

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