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    Icon6 Hello All Newbie here from the UK originally from South Africa

    Hello All Newbie here from the UK originally from South Africa-my-car.jpgHello everyone,

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    Firstly, what a great website. I have been visiting for a while looking at engine rebuilds etc... Just bought myself a Spanish FASA R8 and going to convert it to 16TX motor with big R8 gearbox housing and 16TX internals. My other cars are 2 x Lancia evo 1 Integrales one race one road. I am hoping someone can point me in the direction of where I can get an alloy rocker cover for the 16tx motor. I believe there are some South African members as well so Howzit Going!

    Regards,

    Peter aka Jap

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Woo-hoo.
    Do the dance.
    I dig the R8.

    Do the dance. Do the Daffyduck dance using the Aussiefrogs app. Be real happy if you can.
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    COL
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    Welcome to Aussiefrogs Peter, thats a nice looking R8.

    Getting a 16TX block may be you biggest challenge, all the other motor and alloy parts are available from the various Alpine suppliers (Mecapart, GBS, Simon etc).

    You are only limited by your budget.
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    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! rubyalpine's Avatar
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    Welcome to Aussiefrogs, Peter. What motor is currently in the R8?

    Henry
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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Hi Peter-Jap,
    Very nice looking R8,

    We are going to need a lot more pictures and technical info.......!!!

    Ray
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    Welcome Peter! If I'd known, I'd have come to visit in May this year!!

    I'd be interested to hear more of the FASA car - I'm not aware of any in Oz (not that I'd necessarily know). Did they differ significantly from what we'd have had assembled here in kits from France, partly out of interest in any changes made in the late production cars. R8s finished here in, was it 1966/7?

    cheers
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    JohnW

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    Later R17 TS and 17 Gordini had a similar block to the 16TX in that they had bolt holes for 15, 16, and 17 engine mounts.
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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Not a huge difference between 16TX, 16TS, 15TS, 17TL and TS/G. Some of the mounting points on the block are in different places, but I expect you would mount using a 5mm plate under the timing cover like an A110. The TX had the O Ring bottom liner seal I think like the 18GTS, and 79mm bore to take it to 1647cc. The 18GTS and 17TS/G have a bigger oil pump, with the 17TS/G also having nicer conrods, and bigger valves, but this can be changed on the other motors. It all depends how deep your pockets are and what you want the outcome to be.
    There is a lot of gear available from Mecaparts as I guess you would already know, but with capacity I would stop at 1796cc. Decent billet cams are available from Cat Cams in Belgium. Regrinds are generally not a good option in my experience. camshaft details | CAT CAMS performance camshafts

    Rather than Webers, perhaps you could fit a Jenvey quad throttle body set up onto your Weber manifolds with a programmable ECU. Or you can buy injection throttle bodies that look like Webers now. As much as I love Webers, programmable injection will give better driveability than the carbs can, with outright power similar. I am currently looking into fitting a distributor from an Australian Mitsubishi Magna 4Cyl injected into an 807 to make fitting injection cheaper and easier. Looks like it is going to work, with some time on the lathe, and is cheap for a new unit. MITSUBISHI MAGNA TN TP TR TS 4 CYL 2.6 DISTRIBUTOR ELECTRONIC READY TO RUN | eBay

    This guy seems to know what he is doing, but as always at some cost.
    mes rťalisations
    Last edited by alan moore; 20th November 2016 at 02:04 PM.
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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Hi Peter. Good to have you with us.
    Your R8 is the one I saw for sale in Spain ages ago and once I saw how good it looked it inspired me to do similar. My R8 is on Historical Registration so I can't do much to it. All my decals are stuck to magnetic rubber so I can put them on and off as needed for an event. I love the R8, my car as a young lad was a 1964 R8 956cc and we flogged that car for 6 years and broke a clutch cable holding bracket and that's about it.
    I wish you well with the conversion and if ever I'm in the UK I'll come see it.
    Cheers mate
    PhilHello All Newbie here from the UK originally from South Africa-20151129_044144.jpg
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    Cheers Daffyduck!!

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    What I forgot to say was that I have just bought a 16TX motor and I am busy stripping it down to rebuild into a race motor. My car currently has Siera type non crossflow motor in it and is a 1.4. It has a mild cam and a decent Weber downdraft making it quite nippy. The wheels make cruising on the hi way a bit of a nightmare as they are too small for the output of the gearbox. Any one know if i put slightly taller wheels weather it will make big difference? Does anyone know how you remove the timing chain on these motors? I have got to this point and been driven indoors to ask the knowledgeable how to do it. that reminds me, got to go turn off the garage lights.
    On the question on FASA cars, The rear has drum brakes which I plan on changing to disks. Part from that it is the same. This car was made in 1969. I will update if I find any other differences.

    I will post some more pictures when the weather gets better......it sucks at the moment.

    Regards,

    Peter
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    Just to ad to what I was saying about the 16TX motor. I will strip it down and have some parts vapour blasted. The gearbox internals will be Superfinnished and then rebuilt. The pistons and rings and liners look like they are in very good condition. i have started with the fabrication of a new tubular exhaust manifold. Anyone have any good measurements of header tubes? Im using 38mmx 1.5 304 st/stl pipe . I will put 40/45 side draft Webers or perhaps Dellorto's. I will blue print everything down to removing all casting marks on the block head and cams etc..... it all equals weight off which means better power to weight ratio. This i learnt when racing 250 Superkarts in SA.
    Regards,

    Peter/Jap
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    On my similar engined R10 (to your current setup) I vary between 13, 14 and 15" wheels (5.5" from a 10S) depending on what I'm doing and why - General running around; classic rallies; track day type events. The 13's give the best acceleration obviously, but at 100km/hr it is doing between 3500 and 4000rpm. The 15" drop that down about 1000 rpm from my experience. The 15's give a nicer ride, but overall 14" are probably the best compromise.

    I should add you will be changing your diff ratio from something like 4.1 to 3.78 by using the R16 diff in your new box so bear that in mind also.
    Last edited by renault8&10; 21st November 2016 at 08:35 AM.
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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenoniJap View Post
    i have started with the fabrication of a new tubular exhaust manifold. Anyone have any good measurements of header tubes? Im using 38mmx 1.5 304 st/stl pipe .
    Regards,

    Peter/Jap
    Hi Peter/Jap,

    I can help you with the exhaust calculations but then you will have to start all over because it has to be exact, and it is extremely urgent to stick to these dimensions. Before you start with an exhaust you have to have, or know the specs of the camshaft you are going to use because that gets worked into the calculation.

    If you want, there are a few threads that I posted about that engine or PM me.

    Regards, Frans,
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    trying to delete the other two ???
    Hello All Newbie here from the UK originally from South Africa-img_9842.jpg
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    Last edited by BenoniJap; 21st November 2016 at 08:23 PM. Reason: newbie mistake

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    Still getting the hang of the site.

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    Hello Frans,
    Thank you I would appreciate it if you could send me the details on the lengths. I have asked Salv Sacco for a race cam but don't know what the durations are on the cam yet. I have not yet bent any tube. Only just received the tube last week. Im still waiting for the laser cut manifold plate to be done. Just a quick question: Ive been reading that not much is done in the way of gas flowing these heads. Is this true. As I want to make the ports at least cc correct and flow nicely. I will start with a very mild smoothing of the ports anyway. anyway I shall PM you my email to save answering questions Im sure you have answered in the past.

    Regards,

    Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi Peter/Jap,

    I can help you with the exhaust calculations but then you will have to start all over because it has to be exact, and it is extremely urgent to stick to these dimensions. Before you start with an exhaust you have to have, or know the specs of the camshaft you are going to use because that gets worked into the calculation.

    If you want, there are a few threads that I posted about that engine or PM me.

    Regards, Frans,

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    Attachment 91176​ok I can't seem to rotate this image from my iMac ..... any suggestions please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenoniJap View Post
    Does anyone know how you remove the timing chain on these motors?
    (Start with removing the tensioner) If the chain is non-original, it may have a link. If it is an original part, it is effectively a one-piece (un-linked) chain. So support the camshaft sprocket to stop it rotating, unlock the lock plate (if still there), then undo the bolt, remove the washer, and the sprocket should then pull away from the camshaft.
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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Simon, I'm afraid to differ from you because you're right almost all of the time, but as far as I know the 807 engines don't have a camshaft gear/sprocket bolt. It is a press fit.

    What you need to do is to undo the camshaft retainer bolts (11mm socket), you can reach them through the front holes of the timing gear, and then pull the cam forward a bit and then the crank sprocket a bit and so on until the crank sprocket disengage from the crank.

    Take note that there are many M7 bolts (11mm spanner) and nuts on these motors, save them because it might become an issue getting them.

    Regards, Frans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Simon, I'm afraid to differ from you because you're right almost all of the time, but as far as I know the 807 engines don't have a camshaft gear/sprocket bolt. It is a press fit.

    What you need to do is to undo the camshaft retainer bolts (11mm socket), you can reach them through the front holes of the timing gear, and then pull the cam forward a bit and then the crank sprocket a bit and so on until the crank sprocket disengage from the crank.

    Take note that there are many M7 bolts (11mm spanner) and nuts on these motors, save them because it might become an issue getting them.

    Regards, Frans.
    I'm guessing you will be correct. I just read the context incorrectly :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by BenoniJap
    My car currently has Siera type non crossflow motor in it and is a 1.4. It has a mild cam and a decent Weber downdraft making it quite nippy. The wheels make cruising on the hi way a bit of a nightmare as they are too small for the output of the gearbox. Any one know if i put slightly taller wheels weather it will make big difference? Does anyone know how you remove the timing chain on these motors?
    If it is the 807 motor, note that the sprocket on the crankshaft is sometimes not very co-operative, a suitable puller may be required.
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    Thank you Frans and Simon,

    I had managed to get to the point of loosening the 11mm bolts from behind the cam and thats where I stopped as was not sure if the crank sprocket is press fit or just a bit tight and needing some coaxing. Is it press fit or not? When removing the liners , should they just fall out or a slight tap with a leather mallet?
    The oils pump is in great condition. i will post some pictures in a little while. Dropped the head off for vapour blasting already.

    regards,

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenoniJap View Post
    Thank you Frans and Simon,

    I had managed to get to the point of loosening the 11mm bolts from behind the cam and thats where I stopped as was not sure if the crank sprocket is press fit or just a bit tight and needing some coaxing. Is it press fit or not? When removing the liners , should they just fall out or a slight tap with a leather mallet?
    The oils pump is in great condition. i will post some pictures in a little while. Dropped the head off for vapour blasting already.

    regards,

    Peter
    If it is the 16TX motor (and not the non-crossflow, iron block, Sierra motor) then the crankshaft sprocket will be a press fit. And yes, sometimes it can be quite tight.

    The liners should come free with a couple of gentle taps. Although I've never seen how hard the o-ring (as opposed to the earlier Excelnyl (paper)) liners sit in the block, as Australia never got the 16TX, and I've never worked on an 18GTS motor which was available in Australia. :-)

    If there is corrosion in the block, they may be stuck.
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    If you cannot get the timing gear off with a puller. Cut the timing chain off with an angle grinder and buy a new chain. Then remove the cam and use a press to remove the timing gear. I have had a puller on them and they just don't budge.
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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I use a hammer to tap the bottom of the liners with a 2" x 2" piece hardwood. They shouldn't be all that stuck, although I had a set once glued in with silicone, which proved to be difficult. The O ring style liners from memory maybe even came out easier than the original style liners. Corrosion around the bottom of the liners can be a problem on the 807 engine, but if the liner seat is good, some corrosion around it is not a big worry.

    As Sunroof says, if there is no joiner link then grind the heads off a couple of the pins and it will come apart. You would replace the timing chain anyway as part of the rebuild.
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