Annoying Problems in 94 Mi16
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Annoying Problems in 94 Mi16

    Hi everyone. I am back again for my first query.

    I picked up the might Mi in Jan 01. It was a one owner, 87K, perfect Pug workshop serviced Log etc etc.! I have only done now 6K kms in it and joy is starting to disappear out of sheer worrying of driving it.

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    1) I have a cracked windscreen that had to be replaced. There was no flying object involved only the glue giving away in one spot causing increased stress surrounding to lifting area. P504 advised that this was quite normal in the first of the Series 2 405's - great $600 bucks later and 4 weeks wating for it to come from France. Be aware all other owners!!

    2) I have this quite deathly vibration coming from the drivetrain that you can feel mainly when you depress the clutch pedal. Gearshift relays some as well but it has teflon balljoints that would dampen feeling.
    It is not based on engine speed (2000 or 5000 makes no difference), it just feels like the Lotto draw is being conducted within the clutch housing using numbered bricks instead of the plastic balls. (Anyone from Channel 9???) I have drained gearbox and refilled also adding Nulon G70 Teflon treatment. It has done wonders for the gearbx whine but not for ease of use. I am worried though the vibrations are being transmitted through from the crankshaft as I am now not 100% assured on the MOBIL 1 5W-50 that I was recommened to use. The engine was great when I first restarted it following to oil change but I am worried that long term use has damaged a crankshaft bearing. Anyone else suffer from this vibration. I find that it also affects the rear vision mirror (windscreen only), especially on the freeway (3200 rpm @ 110kmh)
    Maybe the clutch is worn or even a release bearing for it???

    3)Heater is useless. It is the later style HVAC system with Climate control. I get very little heat at all and during winter, I have to contstantly use A/C to demist and drive with a big jacket on! Is it an easy job to remove heater matrix?? I did it on my 505 and it was not a pleasant job!

    4) Fuel smell. When I fill up the car, I have to open up all windows otherwise I would not be sitting here writing to you if I lit a match. HAYNES manual has no mention on recirculation pipes going back to engine to use fumes for combustion. Anyone know where they are???

    Hope to here from you soon. I am off to hospital today and then have a week off to recover at home so I will be having a look in anticipation everyday! THANK YOU V Much for your help

    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hey Mi-16 Man,

    Bugger about your windscreen

    Re the vibration, what sort of condition are all your engine mounts like?...may be causing some vibration....

    Fuel smell : When I first got my 205 GTi I could actually see the fumes pouring out around the fuel cap , and I mean pouring. Economy was also bad. I asked about a seal for the cap, and was told no part listing was available. Poop. I got a bath plug from Woolies and cut it into the correct shape and now seals really well and economy has markedly improved. Maybe see if you can see fumes first , but the recirculating pipe on the 205 is on the passenger side front corner and is plummbed in between the AFM and the Throttle body. It has a small circular valve on it as well.

    Hope this helps in some way, and hope your feeling better.

    Chipper

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Sad about all those problems. The only one I've got a clue about is the fuel. The fuel tank is accessed by removing the back seat. Once removed you'll find the sender unit sitting in the top of the tank. My guess is the return or breather line is loose/cracked etc.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Sounds like you've got a few problems but I doubt that thy will be all that big.
    Vibration that bad has nearly got to be a sheared engine mount; to me sounds like metal to metal. We had a problem with a Citroen CX a few years ago & it almost made your bones ache it was so bad. There was one mount which is under the motor which appeared to be OK but when we raised the motor it was like jelly in the guts of it where it couldn't be seen. This one also supported the motor in part on the side which has an end type mount, hence it was shot also from the extra load. Now I realise that you will have a different set up to that, but I suggest you look for a sheared or flattened mount with that in mind; that one mount may be gone which in turn is causing problems with a second one. I feel that you will probably find that the engine is moving around it will be so loose. To test, start car, put handbrake on, put car in first & partially let clutch out. Have an assistant either working the controls or looking under the bonnet for where thw movements & clunks come from.
    Petrol smell I agree with the others on this but would suggest you look carefully from engine back to the tank particularly in the region of the pump & filter. If Chippers idea doesn't work, I would suggest going as Peter T suggests & look at dropping the tank out as you may find a leak in the top just below the floor.
    As far as the heater is concerned, if it is anything like the one in my Citroen BX it is hard to believe that is was designed at any time other than just after the PSA christmas party - nobody sober could have done what these fellows did
    On mine it is controlled by a bowden cable which is bent in around 240 degree arc. The movement is via a plastic quadrant & the cable "held" in position by a spring clip type of saddle which could not possibly hold it, hence when you turn the knob, the outer cable obviously moves preventing the inner cable from doing it's job. If you pull the dash apart & remove this cable, you have your chance & Buckleys of refitting it back where it came from. If you decide to disconnect from the other end (heater end) then it becomes a major demolition job or a call to the Red Cross to be sure they'll be right to top up your blood supply by the time you get in there & do it.
    I have opted to take this cable out of the equation altogether & mount it attached to a lever on the side of the centre console. That way I end up with a straight pull on the cable, have more leverage than is possible from a flimsy plastic quadrant, & can physically see that it is either on or off. I will leave the knob where it is as there is a micro switch in there which I think is to cut out the air/con compressor when the switch is in the warm-hot position. This way when I use the air/con I just make sure that the switch is fully in the "blue."
    Regarding you using Mobil 1 - Don't panic, a lot of Pug & Cit owners use it & live to tell the tale


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Thanks very much to all for your help! From what I could see there are 4 engine mounts on the car. 2 either side of the engine bolted near the front shocky towers, one just near the sump bolted to the subframe and one more coming from the back of the block and bolted onto the firewall. The two latter mounts are in good order so like you say, it must be the others. My only worry is that the clutch vibrations would still come thru the cable if they were good or bad. After the past few months spending money on $1000 worth of Michelins and the windscreen combined with a cambelt change, the mounts might have to wait.... I am annoyed that my money tree is not growing so well lately! :-( See ya round!
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    i just had my 405 windscreen replaced, $170 all up.
    $600 for a genuine pug one?
    i know which one i'd take!

  7. #7
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    A couple of things I've found guys,
    had a customers BX with a bad vibration through the gear shift and cluth pedal turned out to be a worn out centre bearing on the right hand driveshaft causing the shaft to jump up and down and a warning to all 16V owners, I've seen a lot of Cits and Pugs go up in flames and its nearly always turned out to be fuel hoses working lose, everyone check your fuel lines, they tend to perish across the top of the motor but worse, the clamps work lose and you can't see that, whenever I service one I just grap a screw driver and give the clamps a turn, you'll be suprised how lose some of them are.
    I hope this advise saves someones car.
    Seeya's,
    David.

    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    frenchconnect@bigpond.com

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  8. #8
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    On the fuel lines topic, not long after I bought my '94 306 in February I got home to find a horrible petrol smell outside the car.

    I started hunting at the rear of the car but found that those fancy quick-crimp clamps Peugeot use were not crimping tightly enough on the aging rubber anymore, on the right guard where the rubber pipe meets the metal pipe from the tank. Just lovely - fuel spraying all over the engine, I was glad I wasn't on a long trip!

    A few stainless hose clamps to replace all the quick-crimp clamps and no more problems.

    I think my dad's now done the same on his '91 XM... So as David said, check your fuel lines!

    Derek

  9. #9
    Tadpole
    Join Date
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    I also have a '94 Mi16 and also suffered the fuel smell for 100-200k after filling up.
    What I found was that being from country Vic, I always took the opportunity when in Melb to fill up the tank at the cheaper prices. But what I was doing wrong was filling the tank right up to the filler cap. What happens then is that the fuel evaporation system sucks the excess fuel into the charcoal cannister. The evaporation system is designed to deal only with vapour not raw fuel. So the cannister eventually fills up and overflows in front of the LH front wheel. It takes some time for the fuel to evaporate out of the cannister - hence the smell. Now I only fill the tank to the first click and I have'nt had the problem since. I hope your fuel smell problem is this simple to solve.
    Brian

  10. #10
    Member
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    I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about the Mobil 1 oil you use. We have been using Mobil 1 15w50 in all our Peugeots (including a '91 XU9J4 Mi16) without any ill effects.

    As suggested before, be very suspicious of your motor mounts. We never got any series 2 405s here, but I know that nearly all of the series 1 405s seem to wear out motor mounts and suspension bushings frequently.

    On the '91 we have replaced nearly all the rubber in the front suspension (control arm, sway bar, and upper strut bushings) and the motor mounts. Now the left front ball joint is developing a problem. Maybe the car is just driven too hard

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    south australia
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mi16 Man:
    Hi everyone. I am back again for my first query.

    I picked up the might Mi in Jan 01. It was a one owner, 87K, perfect Pug workshop serviced Log etc etc.! I have only done now 6K kms in it and joy is starting to disappear out of sheer worrying of driving it.

    1) I have a cracked windscreen that had to be replaced. There was no flying object involved only the glue giving away in one spot causing increased stress surrounding to lifting area. P504 advised that this was quite normal in the first of the Series 2 405's - great $600 bucks later and 4 weeks wating for it to come from France. Be aware all other owners!!

    2) I have this quite deathly vibration coming from the drivetrain that you can feel mainly when you depress the clutch pedal. Gearshift relays some as well but it has teflon balljoints that would dampen feeling.
    It is not based on engine speed (2000 or 5000 makes no difference), it just feels like the Lotto draw is being conducted within the clutch housing using numbered bricks instead of the plastic balls. (Anyone from Channel 9???) I have drained gearbox and refilled also adding Nulon G70 Teflon treatment. It has done wonders for the gearbx whine but not for ease of use. I am worried though the vibrations are being transmitted through from the crankshaft as I am now not 100% assured on the MOBIL 1 5W-50 that I was recommened to use. The engine was great when I first restarted it following to oil change but I am worried that long term use has damaged a crankshaft bearing. Anyone else suffer from this vibration. I find that it also affects the rear vision mirror (windscreen only), especially on the freeway (3200 rpm @ 110kmh)
    Maybe the clutch is worn or even a release bearing for it???

    3)Heater is useless. It is the later style HVAC system with Climate control. I get very little heat at all and during winter, I have to contstantly use A/C to demist and drive with a big jacket on! Is it an easy job to remove heater matrix?? I did it on my 505 and it was not a pleasant job!

    4) Fuel smell. When I fill up the car, I have to open up all windows otherwise I would not be sitting here writing to you if I lit a match. HAYNES manual has no mention on recirculation pipes going back to engine to use fumes for combustion. Anyone know where they are???

    Hope to here from you soon. I am off to hospital today and then have a week off to recover at home so I will be having a look in anticipation everyday! THANK YOU V Much for your help

    hi hope i can help. i have had a few low km mi16 approx 80 to 100,00 km in the shop that have had clutch failures due to lots of stop start traffic light driving.i see by your location you may be in that club.the thrust bearings have siezed up due to heat and lack of lube from the factory.seen a couple of failures due to the nylon bushes that align the clutch throw out shaft in with the input shaft this cause the thrust bearing to drop down and break the locking fingers on the back of the thrust.replace or space up the shaft when a clutch is done.as everone else has said check the mounts,the one under the battery can break and cause drive shaft miss alignment.regards mobil one had mi16 and a couple of 405 turbo diesels blow cam and crank oil seals while using it,may just be bad luck ?.the heater system on yours should be controlled by the temp ecu and a drive motor on the mixer flaps,both these can fail but the drive motor is the most common.you leave the temp set to one position and the flap sticks inside the heater box ,then when you change it the plastic gears in the motor snap trying to pull the flap off the side.ive had a few ecu blow circuits,anyone out there fix circuits,shame to throw out.goodluck.they are good cars but can be frustrating.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Well, part 1 of my troubles have gone. A simple $9 fuel sender rubber gasket was stuffed causing about 50mls of fuel to sit just under the rear seat cushion. There was so much that the smell even got past the dust cap and all the foam under the fabric. That should be fine now - am saving up to have the clutch looked at due to it now being difficult to pull the gear selector OUT of gear plus trying to select 1st or Rev is painful! You have to 'roll the car' to find the teeth on the gear cog! Maybe this is the vibration problem - possibly a unevenly worn friction plate or pressure springs. I think (unfortunately) that this car had a harder life before I got it. PITY I CAN NOT AFFORD TO GET A NEW 206 GTi so that I can give it TLC!
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

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