203/403 ute Mi16
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  1. #1
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    203/403 ute Mi16

    woke up this morning with a thought.wondering if it is possible to put a 405 Mi16 4wd engine, g/box, transfer case in a 20/403 ute and use only the rear drive section of the transfer case.if not maybe rotating a 405 engine 90 degrees and adapting a north/south arrangement.i feel this could be an interesting project.with the advent of super fuel vanishing from our pumps and the older engines getting tired and heard to obtain parts for.also a diff centre from a 4wd 405 spliced into the 20/403 diff would be something as well.any ideas please feel free to email me at pugrambo@austarnet.com.au

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    PugRambo,

    I have been contemplating and collecting
    Info on 4x4 peugeots for a while.
    I will be building a RWD out of a Fwd 205
    After I complete my current project which
    should be completed in about 2 months (Turbo 205 Gti)
    Answer to your question it is a brilliant idea
    But it will for one
    Cost a lot if u cant do all the work yourself
    Or if u can and willing to do some hard work and some homework costs should be reasonable
    The problem will be locating a 4x4 gearbox
    Japanese ones that are around cost around $2000 + let alone a 405 one
    engines are around $3000-$5000 depending on where u go and condition
    Checkout RWD in the past topics
    In the end if u really like your car u have to be ready to pay around $7500
    Thats if u can do the work yourself and have the equipment and knowledge to finish it
    But the idea is great
    U have to dream to achieve
    One of my dreams of owning a very powerful 205 is about to become reality

    Murat

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I do know of one 203/403 ute project underway which is getting a 505Gti motor + 5 speed. From what I understand it's a straight forward bolt in with a healthy power to weight ratio.ie better than 205GTi

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    The 505 GTi motor is not quite a straight forward bolt in, into a 203. New engine mounts must be fabricated. Since 203 utes weigh around 1150kg or more (i.e. 200 kg more than the sedan) the power to weight ratio wouldn't be as good as a late model 205 1.9GTi, but it would be comparable to an early Australian model 205 GTi. That's if the 505 motor is left stock. If it's modified then it could well have a better power to weight ratio than a late 205 GTi.

    A 203 sedan, which typically weigh around 950kg, would be awesome with a modified 505 GTi engine.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
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    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the 505 motor is a good idea. i have seen a few sedans and a ute or 2 with the 504 motor in them. they are a tight fit in a 403 engine bay. the only thing that worries me is the 504/05 engine still runs on leaded fuel. physically is the 405 engine smaller ?
    if so it would still give access around the engine in the engine bay

    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

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  6. #6
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    I think the 405 engine would be an interesting conversion. I'm not sure if it is smaller than the 504 motor or not, although it is bound to be lighter.

    It is not expensive to have hardened valve seats fitted to 504 engines and even the standard seats seem to last quite a while on unleaded before a valve burns out. I've heard that the 505 2.2 engine has hardened seats already.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    203 engine mounts are a bit further forward compared to 504/5 engine mounts. And I'd imagine that the oil pump (and the lower part of the sump) might be badly located.

  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i have seen a 504 engine in a 203 with a dry sump arrangment on it taken fron a datsun and driven from where the injection pump is normally located on a TI engine
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That sounds smart, and standing the engine up would make it almost the same size as the 203 engine... well a little bigger. I saw one badly done job in Adelaide years ago, machining and welding the bellhousing looked simple the way they did it, but they had the engine right up high. There would be a lot of things you could get rid of to tidy it up...

  10. #10
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    I've seen atleast 4 203s with 504 engines. they were owned by Gary Cook from Sydney, Dennis Edwards from Victoria, Graham Lewis from Victoria and another one I saw in Queensland which was lowered and ran on LPG. I think Phil Torode in Victoria was one of the first guys to stick a 404/504/505 style engine in a 203 and pioneered the datsun pump driving off the injection timing case, etc.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    yes i have seen gary cookes car quite a few times seeing as though i have known him very well for many years. the 203 he has got also had the 504 motor places 12" further back towards the centre of the car as well with a modified firewall to fit it in. at one stage as well he even tried toyota corona pistons in the 504 block to increase compression but found that anything over 5000 revs created too much piston speed for the toyota pistons and created clouds of blue smoke.that same car went in the wynns safari many years ago.very well thought out car and a lot of work went into it.another friend of mine has a 403 ute with a 504 motor in it but i find the 403 engine bay is too tight a fit for the 504 motor to stand up in.i like to try and have a little room around the engine to be able to work on it
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  12. #12
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Is that Gary Nesbitt's 403 ute you're talking about?

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    thats the one
    i have known the gary's for a long time now.
    niso bought the ute from another friend of mine in young.i was brought up with peugeot oil running through my veins lol.
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Young or Bribbaree?

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    well griffo and baker live in young and as far as i know niso is moving to or has already moved to bribbaree.both baker and griffo had land out there.niso is well known for his love of 203's and i think some people would still remember his white one that he drove everywhere no matter how it affected his back <g>
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  16. #16
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Yeah I remember the white one. Deluxe grille, 403 engine, wide slotted 404 wheels. It was sad to hear that car had been rear ended.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    yeah thats the one
    i don't know if he still has the car or not.at one stage the car has a 203c block in it with 404 liners and pistons with a made up head gasket.he was just about to put the 2 litre in it when the accident happened so the ute that baker had became the recipient of it instead
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  18. #18
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    thanks guys
    been getting some good input regarding this unique conversion
    ray has been really helpfull coming up with some brilliant ideas for drive train and front end tweaks
    nick in qld has been great with helping out ways of mounting the engine in the car
    going to make some enquiries to a few engineers to work out exactly what i have to do with getting the thing passed even though it is not going to be an overnight job i still like to keep abreast of what i can and can't do for the regulations
    keep the comments coming in guys i am more than open to any ideas no matter how insignificant you might think they are they are all interesting to me
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Don't know about brilliant... I'd rather say practical, with a bent for a bit of lateral thinking...

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