Wank tank utes-What to buy?

"heavy duty timing chain which is designed to last the life of the engine".
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In 1986 I was working nights, long hours, and decided to get a brand new car, something "reliable." (It was replacing a Morris 1500...)
I got a Holden RB Gemini, the front wheel drive one.
Having previously owned a GS that had timing belts break, I asked the dealer how often the timing belt needed to be changed.
The answer was "it has a long life belt, it lasts the life of the engine."
The life of the engine was 135000 km, when the belt snapped.
Hateful horrible car.
 
Back to the light (proper) truck and horses question, I recall most of the Mornington Peninsula's thoroughbreds being transported on 4-5 tonne capacity floats of Hino origin with access ramps. As the Neddies have four legs I'm not sure why you would want to chase them around a boggy paddock in a 4x4 when the prospective dog food supplies can be made to walk as far as a hard surfaced road to be loaded!
 
One of the joys of the Subarus with the older 2.2 engine was the non-interference valves. All that happened when a belt broke (or fell off as happened to me when a pulley failed) was the engine stopped.
 
David Cavanagh said:
We've had our 7 tonne fork lift bogged in the backyard and that's hard enough, and embarrassing.
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haha, in my workshop days my neighbour(apv vehicles) had a bright spark drive their forklift onto their nature strip. still remember them smoking the rear tyres on blue vk Brock commodore trying to get it out. tilt tray called to pull it 5 metres back onto car park, many red faces. ...jim
 
Halfbrick said:
"My previous ute (1987 Mitsubishi L200), at the end of its life (rust) I swapped it with a mate for a Poll Dorset ram. It had about 2 days rego left and he wanted it for a paddock ute. He drove it home, it conked out in his driveway and never ran again. The ram wasn't much better."
Love the quote.:cautious:

When we sold our place at Mullumbimby about 10 years ago I was looking for a ute & our neighbour had just put his up for sale. It was a Navara '06, 3 ltr diesel single cab aluminum tray & about 160k on it. I checked with a well respected diesel mechanic & he said that was the model to get, last of that model with a chain." Don't touch a later 2.5 ltr model." It was also fitted with snorkel, CB, anderson plug & airbag rear suspension. We paid $13k for it & had no real trouble with it . We have towed some serious loads with it & only now replacing the clutch ( at 320k) with a heavy duty one. I'm also lucky that my mechanic has one of this model as his work vehicle so he's knows them well. Cheers Dave
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We've had from new close to 400,000 trouble and broken belt/pulley free kilometres from two Renault motors with timing belts over the last few years. They were serviced at the required intervals by our local Renault dealer. The recommended replacement intervals were not onerous and the costs significantly less than replacing/rebuilding an engine. I don't understand the antagonism by some to what is, when serviced properly, a very reliable product.
 
Replacing timing chains with belts is one of the greatest engineering blunders ever made and is the major cause of premature engine failure. Most makers are returning to the timing chain and I would never consider a vehicle with a timing belt now better is available.
 
Russell Hall said:
Replacing timing chains with belts is one of the greatest engineering blunders ever made and is the major cause of premature engine failure. Most makers are returning to the timing chain and I would never consider a vehicle with a timing belt now better is available.
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Interference engines are the problem, Russell, not timing belts! A broken timing chain on an interference engine gives the same result! :)
 
Plenty of cars are notorious for timing chains breaking...
- VW 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines - VW have now changed back to timing belts on newer models. Google "VW 1.2 TSI timing chain" and you will have hours of reading. My partner's Skoda Fabia has the revised version of the affected model, the chain sounds really bad on some cold starts but they say it's "normal" and our car has the modifications so the chain won't come off if it gets slack.
- Mitsubishi Magna Astron 2.6. Tensioners wear out, chain flops around, grinds off metal from inside the timing case and adds it to the oil... I had one replaced when it got noisy, cost about $800 to fix. "ignore the noise at your peril."
- Weren't the Peugeot / BMW 1.6 petrol engines famous for timing chain failures?? (in early examples at least)
going back a few more years, BMC/Leyland E-series engines were known for timing chains stretching and failing, too.
 
I've led a sheltered life and never had the problem but all my old engines were the old Peugeot designs with double chains. I've wrecked and repaired a lot, some with very high mileages and never seen a problem although the early 203 didn't have a tensioner and would make slackness known by banging against the housing. It was considered good practice to fit a new chain in a Peugeot when the engine was reconditioned. The big ag diesels are of course timed with gears like the older Peugeot diesels were. The Mazda/ Isuzu diesel ute has a chain now after failures in an earlier Mazda and the VW Amarok was notorious for belt failures. Some of the Peugeots had problems with premature belt wear. Many people have been caught with belt failure. If a maker designs a chain that breaks it is crap engineering. I would never go near a car with a belt now.
 
Just saying the 1.6 petrol PSA/BMW motor is on to its 4th chain design. But they just stretch until the engine won't start any more due to the cam timing being out.....must of been another safety feature to save the engine from destruction 😃

Timing belts yet to break one but I tend to be cautious of previous owners sketchy receipts 🥴
 
I stripped a 504 with 500,000 k's on it and a perfect chain although the pushrods had little points on them. Designing a chain that lasts the life of the engine is not rocket science, it was done 70 years ago. Losing an engine to a broken belt tends to leave a bitter taste.
 
LDV T60.
Top of the range is mid 30s.
5 year warranty
2.8 litre VM Motori engine (same as Colorado)
4x4
3 tonne towing
Colleague owns one and loves it.
 
Russell Hall said:
I stripped a 504 with 500,000 k's on it and a perfect chain although the pushrods had little points on them. Designing a chain that lasts the life of the engine is not rocket science, it was done 70 years ago. Losing an engine to a broken belt tends to leave a bitter taste.
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Yes they could do it once. We use to hear high km 504's rattling down the street sounding like a diesel because the chain was so warn. Never broke, never left the owner stranded. One customer had 1.1 million kms and kept going.

It's so sad to see the once great Peugeot brand producing this shit. We've done a full circle, a modern Peugeot is the exact opposite of a 504.
 
David Cavanagh said:
I know what your saying, I guess we're trying to avoid the inevitable and not buy Chinese.
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I have only just found this thread so I'm a bit late with 'advice'. My experience of the Ranger is different to yours; I am not sure why. If towing heavy trailers is important, then the Ranger and the Amarok are the best at it in my experience. They both have good performance, ride quality, stability and economy when towing. The Triton is best value of known brands, but I have found it not as stable as the others when towing a heavy trailer.
The Ford's Bi-Turbo 2.0 engine I am deeply suspicious of, yet I have driven 5 or 6 now, 3 of them towing. It's actually a smoother, quieter, more efficient and slightly better-performing engine than the 3.2. How long will the 2.0 last though? I don't know. The 3.2 is certainly a good engine, if a bit rough around the edges, and if you're talking manual, the only one you can buy anyway (except the 2.2, haven't driven it).
The D-MAX is not that great as a tow vehicle. It is not especially stable with a heavy trailer behind it.
The HiLux is the one I would probably choose over the others out of the metro areas because of dealer representation and volume sold = if it breaks in the bush, you have a better chance of getting it fixed. Strange sort of recommendation, but that's where we've come to. It is about the same as the D-MAX in terms of towing performance and stability.
I hope this is of some help.
 
We bought in 2019 and surprised ourselves by buying another BT50 given the last one was trouble but it was well priced. Nearly bought the HiLux but the problem with Toyota is they won't discount, and to get the larger engine you end up in a higher price category. The new BT50 has a comfortable cab and tows well. I'm coming around to replacing it at end of warranty as ten years is beyond work vehicles now.
The LDV - now there's a can of worms being opened. At the moment I'm averse to major purchases from China because they're averse to buying our products. But we have to be aware that the Chinese car industry can undercut everyone and whether we like it or not our future may lie in Chinese cars. But dealing with the Chinese isn't as straightforward as trading with Japan or Korea. They can produce well made products or they can make absolute rubbish and the trick is to pick between the two because they look the same often with the same brand. Agrison the terrible Chinese tractor is an example of how bad things can be. Very few of the Great Walls bought by tradies are still around and trade in prices were in the hundreds. The LDV might be better than the Great Wall but will have no trade in value and really needs to be priced quite a lot lower. Most buyers will adopt a wait and see position. If buyers of Chinese cars like the MG are still happy with them ten years down the road then attitudes to Chinese vehicles may change.
 
David Cavanagh said:
I know what your saying, I guess we're trying to avoid the inevitable and not buy Chinese.
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'Not Chinese' is one reason why I went for the Mahindra - was a toss up between that or the 'Tata' - both available in multiple formats (single cab, double cab, tray, tub, 2WD, 4WD etc) reading reviews I formed the opinion the Mahindra's a slightly nicer drive so went looking for one of those. More than one year in I'm not regretting that decision (I bought secondhand, mines 7 years out of date now). Don't get me wrong, it's not an 'exciting' drive {seriously is any ute?}, but competent enough, the 2.2 "m-hawk" is a really willing unit despite its smaller size - and seems pretty good on fuel. It does have some "idiosyncracies" - 5th gear is 'ridiculously' high ratio (only for freeways & >60Kmh) - which I like, hey the 'overdrive' lives on. Turning circle is almost comically bad (even compared to 'Traction Avant'!) - its a "six point turn" if you need to swap directions in an urban street :), my phone won't 'talk' to the radio through usb, but I reckon they're all liveable with.
I'd say give it a look - but (I think) it's the towing capacity that doesn't get to your spec (believe it's 2.5 tonne max but might be other options?)
Regards,
Rob
 
I've always thought these military specced IVECO utes looked the goods. Drive on car licence, 3500kg towing capacity, 3 x lockable diffs, 1950kg load capacity, what more could you want? IVECO 4x4 utes

Iveco 4x4 Ute.jpg
Iveco 4x4 Crew Cab Ute.jpg
 
A neighbour has a new LDV something or other. They had a Triton before, quite liked it and the new Triton was the first car they looked at to trade up. They ran away screaming, said it was terrible - hard ride, uncomfortable seats. They were noncommittal about the ford Ranger (Franger?), Hilux didn't appeal and price way too high. They wound up in the LDV which they thought was the nicest of the bunch, as well as the cheapest. It was bought to transport 2 horses in a double float.
time will tell...
my advice - sell the horses, buy a nice car.
 
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