V6's in 504's

[Renault17]

Hey guys,
I'm not sure if this should have gone with the 504/505 mods thread but here goes. The 2.7/2.8 V6 that you talk about - is this the same V6 in Pug 604's.

The 'PRV' bit is this the motor developed in conjunction with Renault and Volvo. Does this mean that if you came across a Renault 30 or a Volvo ____? that everything is the same?

What are the main differences if any?

Does putting the V6 into the 504 stuff up the front/rear weight distribution very much?

Finally is it better to(less expense and complexity) simply modify an injected 2 litre rather than use the V6?

I say this because when I had an injected 504 people got scared when you mentioned anything going wrong with the injector pump (not that anything did!), and old 604's seem to be a dime a dozen at the moment.

Cheers Ben

 

[pugrambo]

there are a few dioiferences between the motors but yes it is the joint venture engine
as for the weight i didn't notice the difference. as for performance it made a good change from the TI that i had before that. there is a lot you can do to the V6 to make it even better.the one i had i lowered it and put twin sway bars in the front as well with adj konis in the rear.the motor hada bit of work done to it and i had it coupled to a 5spd BA10/5. 604 rotors and calipers on the front end and modified brake booster.the transplant was pretty straight forward. the only mod i had to do was slightly panel beat the trans tunnel for the gear linkages to clear it.not much though just a little.i must say it was the only 504 i knew i could step the rear end out on any road any time even with 215/65/14 tyres on the ground.even with the 3.78 diff under it it could do 135mph and outrun a friends very hot 2.6l sigma that had twin webers and a 300" lift cam in it. he was very upset lol.

 

[Denis]

Originally posted by Renault17:
Hey guys,
I'm not sure if this should have gone with the 504/505 mods thread but here goes. The 2.7/2.8 V6 that you talk about - is this the same V6 in Pug 604's.

The 'PRV' bit is this the motor developed in conjunction with Renault and Volvo. Does this mean that if you came across a Renault 30 or a Volvo ____? that everything is the same?]]

Here's my 2 cents worth ... Back in about 1985, I bought a 604 for a song. It was a lovely car, less than 60k on the clock - royal blue with grey leather upholstery and had been customised for its owner with a light blue leather top and peugeot lions on the rear door pillars (rumoured to have been owned by the president whatever of the BNP [Bank Nationale de Paris] - Yes vive la difference.

At that time, I was still into doing all my own maintenance. Also, a friend of mine had a 604 - which was one of the first brought into the country. For the second 604, we overhauled the motor - short motor (the kit was picked up for a bargain - another story but is came from a batch of odd peugeot parts that came on the market here in Sydney]

So firstly - the 604 motor was the motor you refer to jointly developed with Volvo and Renault. I think the capacity (no longer have any books) was a shade under 2.8.

[What are the main differences if any?]

In overhauling the one 604, I bought a Volvo 264 manual. It is excellent for the engine internals but all ancilliary equipment differs from the Volvo. I don't know about the Renault 30. Differences - 604 has different water pump, distributor and carburettors... The distributor (Ducellier) had a 3 lobe cam shaft with two sets of points, and if my memory serves me correctly the carburettors were 2 Solex - the first was the same as that fitted to the 504 engine (thermostatically controlled mixture/choke - which ideally needed the special tool for setting) and the second was a twin throat. There was progressive opening between the two
which (again memory) was combination of vacuum and mechanical linkage. Once the whole system was set correctly, the car ran beautifully.. I even added a cruise control .. though I don't think this is what you want to do.

For emissions control, Peugeot had fitted an air pump which injected air into the exhaust manifolds -- the car was better with the thing disabled and the air injection pipes blocked.. hmm

[Does putting the V6 into the 504 stuff up the front/rear weight distribution very much? ]

A good question - I believe that in France Peugeot made V6 504s so perhaps not. I think the front end struts for the 604 were the same as for the 504 in which case my guess is that there are no real problems. I once spoke to someone here who had done it - swapped the engine from his 604 to his 504.

[Finally is it better to(less expense and complexity) simply modify an injected 2 litre rather than use the V6?

I say this because when I had an injected 504 people got scared when you mentioned anything going wrong with the injector pump (not that anything did!), and old 604's seem to be a dime a dozen at the moment.]

I can't answer this one... In the 70s I bought a 504TI from the factory in France, drove it round Europe and the UK, then North America finally bringing it back here. That car had the mechanical fuel injection system and never gave any problems at all. The 604 (if you keep the original fuel system) can be a bit tricky - but works fine after set up correctly.

I would guess that the V6 engine should have more power than even a modified 504 2 litre... but then I don't know for sure. I think that on an engine size basis that the V6 was essentially the 4 cylinder engine with an additional two pots.

cheers


Denis

 

[davemcbean]

Ben,

V6s made before about 1981 are 2664cc, after that they became 2849cc. In about 1985 the firing order was changed and the engine was generally improved. When the 605 came out, they brought out a 3 litre version and there was even a special 24V version, however I'm not sure if the 605 3 litre had some other differences also, so I'm not sure if it bolts in as easily as the 2849cc engine.

Providing you use 604 or 505 V6 engine mounts and gearbox (BA10), the 2664cc or 2849cc V6 bolts directly into any post-1974 504 with ease (the cross member on all post-1974 504s, 604s and 505s is the same). From 1974 to 1983 504 coupes and cabrios were available in France with the V6.

A standard carb 2664cc V6 has 136hp and 195-210Nm

A standard injected 2664cc V6 has 144hp

A standard carb 2849cc (I think these were only sold in North America) has 136hp and 221Nm

A standard injected 2849cc V6 has 145-170hp (depending on the country) and about 235Nm

In comparison, a modified 2 litre with twin 40mm webers has a practical (street drivable) limit of around 150hp and 190Nm.

Extractors, a very mild cam and a better carb or injection work quite well on the V6 engines, however due to the unusual rocker action, timing discrepancies can occur if much wilder cams are used (unless the cam grinder is an expert on these engines).

The rally spec 2664cc engine had 2 triple throat 48mm webers and produced 240hp and 250Nm. These were fitted to 504 coupe rally cars in the late 1970s (check out the picture of the rally cars in the downloads section- there is a photo of a red and white V6 coupe with big guards as well as some modified 2 litre engines in 504 coupes)

Because manual 604s were never sold in Australia, the correct V6 bellhousing is difficult or expensive to obtain here. There is a guy in Melbourne who cast up these bellhousings to fit both the BA10 and BA7 gearbox, but these cost around $600.

The 505 2.2 litre OHC engine is also worth considering (you have to use the gearbox and engine mounts from the 505). It is capable of outputs well in excess of 150hp and 200Nm, with twin webers or 4 throttle bodies.

regards,
Dave

 

[Ray Bell]

Every report I've heard suggests the V6 runs much better on LPG. With the original carby setup sold in Australian, it's worth any price to convert the thing. Anyone wanting some useful suggests about a unique way to get this right, just ask.

 

[jonhardy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Renault17:
Hey guys,
I'm not sure if this should have gone with the 504/505 mods thread but here goes. The 2.7/2.8 V6 that you talk about - is this the same V6 in Pug 604's.

The 'PRV' bit is this the motor developed in conjunction with Renault and Volvo. Does this mean that if you came across a Renault 30 or a Volvo ____? that everything is the same?

What are the main differences if any?

Does putting the V6 into the 504 stuff up the front/rear weight distribution very much?

Finally is it better to(less expense and complexity) simply modify an injected 2 litre rather than use the V6?

I say this because when I had an injected 504 people got scared when you mentioned anything going wrong with the injector pump (not that anything did!), and old 604's seem to be a dime a dozen at the moment.

Cheers Ben

Renault 30 V6's have a very different sump and the exhaust manifolds are a rather streamlined sort of shape. Bit like a better version of the Volvo ones.
I was given some and have them on my 604, but the only way I could fit them in resulted in the outlets pointing forward, down and inwards at the front of the motor! Much mig welding of stock mandrel bends followed. Remember that the R30 was a FWD... The motor does now rev a bit better and runs more economically . Exhaust note changed too. Another side effect is that the starter motor is easy to get to, but now that I have the volvo electronic dissy installed it starts so instantly that it'll probably never wear out.! The R30 weber and manifold is a much better set up and some cars have had a Rochester or a Holley 350 (320) fitted. Jon Hardy