Tyre(d) question

Sans_sagesse said:
As for wheelspin on wet take off in a front-drive car....
Click to expand...
The C5 3.0 tt HDi (ff) wearing PS4's had no slip or traction control intervention on full throttle take off in dry. Really, really provoked in the wet and the traction light might flicker for an instant (now at the end of their life, wet traction is not so good but they are down to just a few mm of tread).

as 4cvg mentioned there are other options worth considering too; Goodyear AS5 or Falken 510 both take my fancy and rate really well, but I don't have any experience with them.
 
lowpugV2 said:
Just to add some more anecdata, in the 306 I'm obviously not running 19 inch wheels... The classic 195/55/15. With the Bridgestone re003, in the wet I get wheelspin on the inside wheel cornering, and acceleration up hill I have spun up the wheels. This did not happen for the first 3 months/3000 kays. They were great as new tyres. But, here's where it gets curly. The car essentially did stay idle for the last year during covid, only doing very short runs. I suspect this has a lot to do with it. Parked on the street and baking the tyres have just hardened up.
The Audi with 255/55/19 Michelin PS 4 S got driven more regularly and those tyres are still grippy as geckos. They've been in regular use, doing about 15,000 kays over the last year.
Click to expand...
You might like the FM800 as well. I had a pair on the rear of a rear engined Renault & was impressed by wet grip & by longevity of compound.
 
As luck would have it, got a nail in one of the back tyres, so got the local Bridgestone franchise to plug it and do an alignment while there. It did have too much toe-in. We're due some wet weather this week, so let's see what happens. I'd love to be proven wrong and all it needed was an alignment.
 
alan moore said:
I still don't think the RE003 is a poor tyre, and I have just fitted a set to the Fuego. Performance for money, they are still a good choice. I don't think I would be disappointed if I fitted another set to the RS265. No real problem taking off with my front wheel drive as has been complained about above. I have 295Hp at the wheels in my Megane, but I don't try to use them all in the wet. Maybe the limited slip diff helps in this respect.

Just looking around at what is out there, and under $300. I will read some more tests and chase and see what can be done with the pricing.
Click to expand...
Hey Alan, I have RE-003s on my 306 GTi-6 and they’re a great tyre. Only other options in my size though are Toyo R-888s which are a semi-slick, and Pilot Sport 3’s.
 
I have just ordered Bridgestone Potenza Sport in 245/35/19 from Costco for $260 each fitted and filled with nitrogen. The RE003s are available at the unbelievable price of $185 each from Costco currently in my size, if 4 are purchased. I will get the Potenza Sports fitted next week. These have performed well in various recent tests. In reading many tests and reviews it seems the Pilot Sport4 and the Pilot Sport4S are quite different with the PS4 more suited to less sporting cars. I am sure the PS4S is very good, just $410 each was the best I could find in my area.
 
alan moore said:
I have just ordered Bridgestone Potenza Sport in 245/35/19 from Costco for $260 each fitted and filled with nitrogen. The RE003s are available at the unbelievable price of $185 each from Costco currently in my size, if 4 are purchased. I will get the Potenza Sports fitted next week. These have performed well in various recent tests. In reading many tests and reviews it seems the Pilot Sport4 and the Pilot Sport4S are quite different with the PS4 more suited to less sporting cars. I am sure the PS4S is very good, just $410 each was the best I could find in my area.
Click to expand...
Sounds very reasonable! Honestly I wouldn't fit the PS4S again. Not because they aren't great but I just don't need that level of grip in everyday driving. Something like the PS4 or those potenzas are definitely better everyday tyres. Happy to trade ultimate grip for a little more forgiving ride and less road noise. One tyre I will never fit is a Pirelli, not had any good experience with them.
 
Well, there are good tyres & bad ones within even good tyre companies' ranges. I'd fit the PZ4 Sport in a flash if it came in 165/65-14! The only Pirellis I've had recent experience of (I85/60-14 rears on my RER Renaults) are the current P6 & the defunct P5000. I liked each as a "fanging" tyre.
 
Last edited:
alan moore said:
I have just ordered Bridgestone Potenza Sport in 245/35/19 from Costco for $260 each fitted and filled with nitrogen.
Click to expand...
Hard to beat CostCo for price and quality of fitment. Seems like an excellent price for them.
Yes the PS4 isn't the sharpest steerer but have tremendous grip wet or dry and a reasonable ride. They remain one of the best performance road tyres I've ever had.
 
Phil
I have PS4 on my DS4. Very quiet and have worn well. I don't know about grip because I have too much respect for the mud on the rural roads around here.
Don
 
CC1701 said:
About 20% ish oxygen, a dash of argon and so on i'm guessing :)
Perhaps you have really big gas cylinders so you can mix the right compsition each time you pump up your tyres. ;)
Click to expand...
Ahh, you've seen through my thinly veiled disguised comment. Yes I use a very large gas storage, its almost out of this world!

Actually I have a theory. The stated reason for using nitrogen is that the larger molecule dimension slows down the rate of leakage through the tyre. So by inference the other gas, oxygen, must be smaller and leak at a relative higher rate than nitrogen. So if a tyre is initially inflated from the atmosphere, and was topped up from the atmosphere then the tyre would effectively become a filter for allow oxygen to pass and retain the nitrogen. So after several top ups, the nitrogen in the tyre would be increasingly the greater percentage of the total gas mix.

Comments?
 
The physics are understood. It is important when looking at the movement of gases through rock. I think all N in tyres is a waste of money myself. It's too complex for here. For an example of transport you get stuff like this:
air-flow.jpg
 
seasink said:
The physics are understood. It is important when looking at the movement of gases through rock. I think all N in tyres is a waste of money myself. It's too complex for here. For an example of transport you get stuff like this:
Click to expand...
Hi. As a customer and motorist, I agree with you. If I was a tyre retailer selling N as an add on purchase, I would disagree with you.
 
Costco do not charge extra for the nitrogen fill of their tyres, and their prices are already lower than the opposition by a significant amount.

As mentioned one of the advantages is apparently the molecules are larger and so the the pressure escapes less, but also the tyre pressure does not rise and fall with temperature as greatly, keeping your tyres at a more optimal pressure.
 
You can do the calcs. Pure nitrogen has a permiability through rubber roughly 3/4 that of the air mixture, and about 1/3 of pure oxygen, Hydrogen passes more easily than any of these, but you won't fill with this. Actual flow rate depends on pressure gradients, temperature, etc.

So the oxygen fraction in the tyre reduces over time. But is it worth the money for a road car with the pressure checked at sensible intervals?
 
alan moore said:
Costco do not charge extra for the nitrogen fill of their tyres, and their prices are already lower than the opposition by a significant amount.

As mentioned one of the advantages is apparently the molecules are larger and so the the pressure escapes less, but also the tyre pressure does not rise and fall with temperature as greatly, keeping your tyres at a more optimal pressure.
Click to expand...
Hi. I agree on the science for your first point.
I don't agree on the science for your second point - Charles law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charles_and_Gay-Lussac's_Law_animated.gif

But if Costco don't charge, then it certainly wont hurt.
 
I have had the same experience with Bridgestone's RE003. Slip on takeoff and eventually (when well used but not yet close to wear limit) poor braking in the wet.

Keep in mind however the wheels are unloaded when taking off so I am not sure what it means. My 205 is a light car and with the wheels unloaded it is easy to imagine why they would slip. A test of this specific instance would not tell you much. Well it would tell you that your car is capable of transferring enough weight that it will give away traction. I expect most cars (especially FWD) would slip, the more power, the easier.

As for nitrogen, I think they initially claimed it was for the better behaviour of Nitrogen with temperature variation, now it seems it's keeping pressure better. Maybe. But if your tyre leaks I think using Nitrogen is not going to stop it. Rubber shouldn't leak air anyhoo. Not at a rate that you can not catch with normal maintenance.
 
watch out for tyres that are fitted with tracking devises. Its the Government, been doing it for ages. Go and look at your wheels. When the circle goes from rubber to steel rim, just a little further towards the center you may find a rubberized Aerial , they vary in length from about 25mm to 50mm . If you dont want to be tracked just cut them off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top