Towing A Caravan With a 407

E

Echuca 407

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Tadpole
Tadpole
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Echuca
Hi everyone. I have a 2005, 407 2ltr HDI 16v, automatic.
The technical data shows braked trailer weight of 1,500kg, but a "Recommended nose weight" of 60kg.
The nose/ball weight seems very low, given that most cars have a ball weight around 10% of the braked weight, and would really only be suited to a 6x4 box trailer.

The caravan is about 1,400 kg and has a ball weight of about 140kg (depending on the load distribution).

Is there any way to legally increase the nose/ball weight? The 407 has a Hayman Reece towbar, rated above 1500kg.
Are rear suspension mods likely to be needed?

Thanks,
Neil
 
the rear suspension is quite soft on a 407. You need to tow a european caravan if you own a european car.

eg:
www.ebay.com.au

Elddis Caravan 20' extremely light European caravan | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Elddis Caravan 20' extremely light European caravan at the best online prices at eBay!
www.ebay.com.au

so bailey, swift, eldis etc.... Not the 'van I've linked, its registered as an old Viscount (it may be fine, but it'll be a stat writeoff.... and fingernail scratch in the paint will stat writeoff a caravan in NSW).

They have tiny drawbar weights. The more modern bailey caravan even have the LPG bottles and batteries mounted over the axle.

The only way you could get the towed mass increased is have an engineer re-design and sign off on the rear suspension.

seeya,
shane L.
 
DoubleChevron said:
the rear suspension is quite soft on a 407. You need to tow a european caravan if you own a european car.

eg:
www.ebay.com.au

Elddis Caravan 20' extremely light European caravan | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Elddis Caravan 20' extremely light European caravan at the best online prices at eBay!
www.ebay.com.au

so bailey, swift, eldis etc.... Not the 'van I've linked, its registered as an old Viscount (it may be fine, but it'll be a stat writeoff.... and fingernail scratch in the paint will stat writeoff a caravan in NSW).

They have tiny drawbar weights. The more modern bailey caravan even have the LPG bottles and batteries mounted over the axle.

The only way you could get the towed mass increased is have an engineer re-design and sign off on the rear suspension.

seeya,
shane L.
Click to expand...
Thanks Shane L. I sort of expected what you have explained, but it is worth seeking the advice of members.
 
I have an English Lunar Ariva caravan, 13 ft with shower and toilet
Many problem, in the handbook has a warning.
Do NOT exceed 130kph due to aerodynamics
Total weight 900 kg about weight of Aussie box trailer
ariva.jpg
 
Caravans or any pig trailer is inherently unstable in yaw. The tow ball weight is one critical criteria to minimise the risk of this happening

 
jo proffi said:
yes there is. Legally…… buy a car that is suitable for towing 1400/140.
Click to expand...

there is a reason why everyone seems to own a pretend wank tank or twin cab ute (probably even both). that's why I ended up with an old wank tank too..... I'd be lost without the shitbox for towing duties
 
Echuca 407 said:
Is there any way to legally increase the nose/ball weight? The 407 has a Hayman Reece towbar, rated above 1500kg.
Are rear suspension mods likely to be needed?

Thanks,
Neil
Click to expand...
jo proffi said:
yes there is. Legally…… buy a car that is suitable for towing 1400/140.
Click to expand...
Or buy a caravan that your car can tow legally.
 
FIVEDOOR said:
Caravans or any pig trailer is inherently unstable in yaw. The tow ball weight is one critical criteria to minimise the risk of this happening

Click to expand...
Hi.

That is an excellent and succinct visual demonstration to illustrate how important packing a caravan is, to get the heavy things on top of the axle.

I suspect that most drivers who are towing a caravan have no idea about the yaw dynamics while towing on the highways.

Cheers.
 
Whippet said:
Hi.

That is an excellent and succinct visual demonstration to illustrate how important packing a caravan is, to get the heavy things on top of the axle.

I suspect that most drivers who are towing a caravan have no idea about the yaw dynamics while towing on the highways.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

The weird bit is pommy caravan can move around.... The different is they don't "take off" leaving you upside down on the side of the road, as they don't have the mass at the ends to keep the swaying up.
 
Also where the tow ball is in relation to the rear axle, the closer the better. Most utes have the tow ball a long way back from the rear axle. This is why 5th wheel combinations are best.

It is important to remember when loading your car, ute or van is to put the heavy items between the axles if possible. The average twin cab ute has most of the tray hanging out behind the rear axle line which when loaded just compromises the vehicle more than it already is.
 
If your towing a big aussie caravan .... I really think the only safe tow rigs are those stupid big american "trucks" :rolleyes: If you're towing 3.5+ tons, you really want to be towing with something that weighs at least that much. I don't understand why aussies didn't start buying 5th wheelers 15years ago when everyone started buying twin cab utes.
 
wrong towbar fitting.
There are many makes, most are the low kg models/european.

I you are able to source and use a high rated towball weight type, you should have ~ 100 kg on the ball (it would be written/Stamped) on the neck)

Not the curvy one piece thingys; not rated high enough for your van.
 
BOZ said:
wrong towbar fitting.
There are many makes, most are the low kg models/european.

I you are able to source and use a high rated towball weight type, you should have ~ 100 kg on the ball (it would be written/Stamped) on the neck)

Not the curvy one piece thingys; not rated high enough for your van.
Click to expand...

You are wrong. 407's can have a very high tow capacity (upto 1900kg depending on model) This issue is the 65kg maximum down weight. The towbar fitted to the car is irrelevant, this is the manufactures maximum ball weight for the rear suspension. You can put the biggest towbar you like on the car, its maximum weight is stil 65kg. Which makes the 407 useless as a towcar (pretty much every european car suffers from this issue). Why do you think everyone that tows has a 4wd ..... :)
 
No, 407 s do not. If you mean loaded capacity, yes , a loaded car with occupants and trailer/van.
The cars do not have tow ratings up to 1900 kg. !
The towbar is the strengthened reinforced to the car frame.
A 600 kg towBAR can only tow loads safely upto 600 kg.

Same for the Ball weight. If the ball weigh on the TOWBAR states 65 kg, then the towbar rating only allows for a force of 65 kg down weight on the towbar (BALL).

Read carefully before putting any higher loads on UnPlated towbars.
 
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They can tow upto 1900kg dependent on model. 65kg is it for the tongue download which really makes the maximum towed amount irrelevant. Yes, the towbar would need to be plate 1900kgs (in australia that is) for it to be legal. it would still only have 65kg on the tongue though.
 
I don't know what you need me to say.

If rated, use it.

If underrated, do not.
 
This is a common problem with European vehicles, and something many here in Oz don't pay enough attention to, because they are usually not go-to tow vehicles.

Whatever the lowest kg rating is, applies to every rating-required element of towing (vehicle, towbar, towball, chains, coupling).

As for the towbar, there are also two ratings at play: what it is rated to pull (here a trailer mass of up to 1900kg, braked), and what downward force it is rated for (60kg, the mass imposed at the trailer coupling).

Usually the towbar is rated to the same max weights as the vehicle is rated up to, but there are exceptions. Some Euros, but especially local cars when we had them. Commodore could tow up to 2100kg (2500kg Crewman Cross8) but you could buy a cheaper towbar that towed max 1200kg.
 
BOZ said:
I don't know what you need me to say.

If rated, use it.

If underrated, do not.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't think you have understood the point of this thread. He was trying to work out if he could tow a caravan with his 407. The answer is "no" due to the tongue weight issues. However a pommy 'van will have a super light tongue weight, so that is an option (ie: a european caravan designed to be towed by european cars with insanely low towball downforce ratings).

Yes everyone is aware in theory an australian towbar should have ratings fitted to it. None of mine have as they are too old (maybe the shitboxes does ... I've never checked). The towbar rating cannot be higher than the vehicle manufacturers ratings though.
 
The trouble with such a low downforce means you are open to instability when towing so best if you are going to tow with it to go to a centre where they can do an upgrade to the car and hence increase the towball weight downforce limit to make for safer towing
I for one would not be happy towing a van albeit totally legal weight with only 60kg on the ball
 
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