Timing marks 807-11 motor & 4 speed transmission R16.

[RINGER]

Current:
Has electronic ignition.
I usually dynamically time older vehicles with a vacuum gauge, as I have done on this vehicle, after initial static timing.
Purchased a new EQUUS professional timing light this week & when the vacuum advance is plugged @ 650RPM idle hot I get what looks like 2 pointers showing @ extremes of the bell housing window, one looks painted.
With vacuum advance hooked in the painted pointer runs in the centre of the window
Background:
This engine & transmission is fitted to a 1949 Traction Avante [Slough Light 15]
It appears this engine was originally fitted with an auto transmission but the OP couldn't get the transmission to fit so reverted to the R16? 4 speed including bell housing.
Not sure about the clutch & flywheel but the standard R16 clutch was apparently not correct.
When I ordered a new clutch & pressure plate the old guy Wayne @ Better Brakes Southport [now retired] said that my sample was not R16 but here ~ this one is what y'all need & he had NOS on the shelf. So I really don't know what it's off but it would be French.

The bell housing window has 0 -2- 5 BTDC markings.
It is possible these bell housing markings although good with the pointer as far as degrees go & these indicating markings may not be too relevant to timing on this engine
I do have 3 X R16 manuals & have searched the internet, but can't find much info on the 807 - 11 engine.

The vacuum & mechanical advance seem to be fine.
Questions:
1. What are the 2 pointers for?
2. What degrees should the timing be @ 650RPM plugged vacuum advance line.

Many thanks,
John

 

[Sunroof]

The auto motor 807-11 is from an R15 TS or 17TL and there is one timing mark that is on the torque convertor. The flywheel of an R17TS/G has two timing marks. As far as I am aware the only fly wheel for these motors to have them. Because it was fuel injected the timing was a bit unusual. The bell housing of the 17TS/G had 0 - 5 - 8 degrees marked on it. The timing of the R17TS/G was set statically using these marks. I don't have the actual degrees with me but do have them in a manual. I can get them if you want and put on here.

 

[RINGER]

Seems this engine 807 - 11 Serial No. 0581 has no pollution gear has a Weber two barrel carburettor & pulley/harmonic balance @ the number 4 end with cam accessory drive @ the transmission Number 1 end. Perhaps it is a composite of parts & the flywheel may be off the the R17TS/G? Maybe that is why the clutch is also different?

I do have the engine running fine with good power & realy good vacuum readings although the run on with ignition switched off, raised it's head again today, something I though was sorted.

Forgetting the bell housing marking as I can work though that easily enough [I have 2 other bell housings in the roof] ~ one with about 6 lines & no numbers the other the same as the one on the car now 0-2-5 >>>>

What was the 807 crossflow engine with a manual transmission, if there was one?
What was the timing light method of setting that engine please?
At idle no vacuum? [say around 5/6/10* or something else or another method].

Besides my simple old Renault 750 the only other French car I've been involved with was an SM back in the late 60's & the method of checking their timing was very strange & set @ high engine RPM from memory.

Thanks for help JG.

 

[Sunroof]

I'll take a scan of the timing page. The 807 -11 never had a flywheel or seperate bell housing. So the bell housing and flywheel had to be off another engine. The bell housing possibly off an 807 - 10 from a 15 TS or 17 TL. the fly wheel seems as if it might be off a17TS/G. There may be a part number cast into the bell housing. I'll sort a scan of the wkshp manual page some time today. There was nothing special about setting the timing just like other cars from that era as far as I know.

 

[Aln]

Probably the first thing to check is that whatever mark you are using corresponds with TDC on the bellhousing, when the piston is actually at TDC. Fairly easy given the position of the spark plug hole. The flywheel cannot be put on in the wrong position as the bolt pattern prevents this.

I am suspecting that your run on problem may be associated with too little advance causing the exhaust valves to be too hot. I haven’t had a stock 807 type engine for a while, but my manual says that an 807-11 should have a distributor curve R273 (usually marked on the casing) and run 9-11 degrees BTDC with the vacuum line to the distributor removed and plugged.

The manual version of your engine, the 807-10 has curve R243 at 1BTDC to 1 ATDC or curve R266 at 2-4 BTDC or the same curve as the auto R273 at 5-7 BTDC. In my modified engines with modded distributor I run 8-10 BTDC with a total advance of 32 degrees all in by about 3800 rpm, with no vacuum advance mechanism. With vacuum at high rpm cruise you could perhaps have 38-40 total.

 

[Bustamif]

I agree with Alan.

All 3 of my modified engines run within 1 degree of the settings Alan uses. None have vacuum advance. They all start on the first couple of rotations, none have any run on problems.

I make sure I have TDC clearly marked on the flywheel and make other timing marks that are easy for old folk to see.

 

[schlitzaugen]

When you say the engine runs on do you mean it keeps running after switching the ignition off like nothing happened or does it just run for a little while with lots of shaking (dieseling)?

If the former, you need to check the power is cut off at the coil/dizzy. I remember some alternators needed a diode in the output to prevent this.

If the latter, it can be to do with carbon deposits or hot valves/combustion chamber/whatnot as suggested above.

 

[Sunroof]

I looked up my wksp manual and don't believe it will be much help unless you know which vehicles all the different bits come from. I suggest Alans method is the best and it is what I have used on two of my vehicles.

 

[RINGER]

Thanks gents ~ into it tomorrow after I get the car levelled out with torsion bar adjustments.

 

[driven]

The correct torsion bar settings in France were as shown in pic.

They changed them in OZ to suit marketing requirements.
The Heidelberg factory had 4 scales, drove car onto them, easy couple minutes to set all 4

 

[RINGER]

All done set on 7*BTDC vacuum line off as Alan outlined runs better no pinging but still runs on somewhat after ign. off.
Maybe idling a bit high & will keep @ it until all's right.