THP 1.6 engine rattle on startup

Make sure the mechanic is used to this engine (Peugeot, Citroen, Mini, BMW) as the job requires a special cam setting tool as well as immobilising pins. Setting the tensioner is also a fiddle, recommended to be done using a dummy.

All instructions can be downloaded from servicebox.

Good point Buddy. I would not take the Prince engine to a local garage-type mechanic. You need to take it to someone that has previously done it. Believe me. So it may well cost you more for piece of mind. All the best and keep us posted.
 
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Penny wise and pound foolish [emoji106]


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
After 5-6 mechanics quoting me 2500+ I finally found a local mechanic to do the job for 1300. Very happy and booked for late May.
Tim Maher off this forum was also very helpful and knowledgeable.
Will keep this posted!

Hi Pal, I'm sure you 'deep-down' have found an affection for your GTi. My 207cc Sport sits on the same running gear - turbo; wheels; brakes; gearbox. And even though Pug stiffened the under chassis of the 207cc (they are steel criss-cross bars that lock in the cabin chassis), your 207 GTi will be much stiffer. And who doesn't like a stiffy? Ahem . . . I've had a few Canadian Club's again . . . :joker:

We are very happy to help you with advice, after this timing chain thing. It was inevitable, but the new kit is a RP (revised part), so no issues after that. You will notice an improvement in performance, because your timing is not on song. Run 98RON petrol. BTY - I own 2 x Peugeots and 2 x Nissans - (best of both Worlds). :headbang:

ps: Handling - when roof is down on the 207cc, the weight distribution to the rear improves cornering - less understeer. :cheers:
 
207cc, you're exactly spot on, bloody love the car for some reason.

The mechanjc I found has done this work on this engine before and knows plenty about them. Very lucky I found him at the price I did.

Really looking forward to the timing chain being done. I have a set of 50mm lowered springs, MTC air intake and hubcentric wheel spacers to go on. Looking forward to that even more!
 
Sure thing, I haven't had the work done yet to say for sure. But he said he has done timing chains for the engine before and knew that sometimes water pump needed doing etc etc.

It's hardy automotive in grovedale, Geelong, Vic.
 
Fitted my lowered springs and MTC intake. Loving the new intake and springs are good too. Needs to be a bit lower at the back.

Timing chain getting done in 2 weeks. From there its time for a full service, catch can/PCV delete and intake valve clean.
I'm hoping to see an increase in performance after the timing chain and valve clean. Can anyone confirm after thjs they've felt better performance?

Also can anyone advise how to upload pics?
 
If the valves really are crudded, the improved air flow after cleaning will give more torque and noticeably better acceleration. Mine did. The chain won't speed it up unless there is something woeful about your valve timing.

For pics you can either store them externally and post a link on AF (just type a full URL in the text), or else reduce them to only 100 KB each. (It can be an effort to keep many readable). The format can be png or jpg. Then press the button in the toolbar and they will be accepted here.
 
Yeah I see. LTFT was +9.5% So timing is out a bit. But i don't feel much of a pull once boost comes on, wondering if that's the crud build up. Also as everyone else notices, after a few decent runs the intake temps get high and it goes nowhere.

Apart from opening the engine is there any way to tell if it needs an intake clean?
 
Unfortunately there are no idiot lights or messages for valve and port crud. All that happens is the engine can't get enough air for the fuel injected despite the turbo blowing (ie enriches), and the performance drops. To see it you will have to remove the inlet manifold and use a mirror and torch.

Don't do this without reading up on the procedure first - there are fixings and connections under the manifold/plenum you cannot see from above, and not easily from below. You do it often by feel. It's best to use a mechanic with prior experience.
 
Unfortunately there are no idiot lights or messages for valve and port crud. All that happens is the engine can't get enough air for the fuel injected despite the turbo blowing (ie enriches), and the performance drops. To see it you will have to remove the inlet manifold and use a mirror and torch.

Don't do this without reading up on the procedure first - there are fixings and connections under the manifold/plenum you cannot see from above, and not easily from below. You do it often by feel. It's best to use a mechanic with prior experience.

You eventually get super knock misfire or rich codes



Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Indeed. I was forced into inlet cleaning by irregular misfiring, which got very frequent. It would always go away if you stopped and restarted, but came back in a big way in a kilometre or so.

The improvement after the job was remarkable.
 
The car idles well. Has slight hesitation sometimes when cold, but not noticeable.
Is there anything else I should watch out for that are signs of clogged intake valves?
The cars got full service history from Peugeot so I wonder if it ever had it done as scheduled maintenance?
Also based on the engine running smoothly, would it benefit from Subaru Upper Cylinder Cleaner seeing as it may not be badly clogged?
 
Glad you got it booked and hopefully it doesn't break before then. Mine had a death rattle from when I bought it and eventually the brake vacuum pump seized which killed the engine and bent some valves. I did all the repairs myself... New timing chain assembly and guide bolts, new brake vacuum pump, 2 new valves, new spark plugs, head gasket, rebuilt the turbo because it was also seized, new oil cooler gasket, battery was replaced.

These Prince engines really know how to die!

I have a Forge intake and GFB BOV. What springs have you got? I've been watching the Vogtland ones on eBay. They seem pretty cheap but does that mean nasty?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/950123-Vogtland-Sport-Suspension-Lowering-Springs-Kit-For-Peugeot-207-Inc-GTI/362004213962?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Ols04, there are foaming manifold and inlet port cleansers (Nulon is easier to find than Subaru's) made for the purpose. People run a can through before each oil change to keep a clean system clean.

Peugeot sell a softening solvent to be used as part of a de-crud. Having scraped and bashed at the stuff after Peugeot treatment I doubt any solvent would remove it unaided.
 
I put v-maxx 50mm lowered springs. Pretty happy with them, back could be lower though and cost me about 400-450 delivered.

With the intake valve clean seems hard to tell if it needs it. If anyone can tell me how I can tell whether it needs to be done would.be great. Don't wanna spend the money on that unless I have to haha
 
Some have a recall on them what’s your vin


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
You seem to know a bit about the prince engines. My 2018 3008 has one. Am i likely to have issues wirh a 2018 model? I notice rattle at start up.
 
He sure does. He worked on them, with factory info access.

2018 is well after the chain etc disasters. You would have the revised parts.

The original turbo form of the engine, EP6DT, is a joint design effort by BMW and PSA Peugeot-Citroen. The head is very like a BMW and the block is PSA-like. "Prince" is a BMW code name, not used by the French. It was superseded in BMW products, but developed further by PSA acting alone after the co-op agreement ended for newer versions with increases in output. They are built in France.

There is a non-turbo version as well.

There are two prominent noises you will hear. The tapping noise, all the time, is from the injection. At start you will usually hear a chain sound which quickly goes away as the engine warms.
 
I have a 2015 with the prince engine. Had the rattle once a couple of years ago, got a specialist to replace the chain tensioner as a precaution. He said the rattle was due to being low on oil. Have not heard any rattles since and I make sure to keep it topped up. Fingers crossed the chain will never need to be replaced. Seems these later models are pretty well sorted regarding this issue.
 
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