THP 1.6 engine rattle on startup

O

Ols04

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Fellow Frogger
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Australia, Victoria
Very briefly my 207 gti with 100,000km on it is making a slight rattle only first startup in the morning. I've done a search and as per what I've read it does get louder at the 1800rpm or so mark.

I've taken it to a Peugeot dealership, as well as a local Euro mechanic and they both advised that the whole timing chain, tensioner etc needs to be done at the same time.

Just wanted to see if that's the recommended course of action, and if there's anything else I need to ask to be done at the same time?
Also there seems to be an oil leak I noticed, could that be related to the timing chain?
 
Chain and tensioner are usually changed as one operation. The early duds were all fixed by Peugeot when they stretched with a new version.

A bit of noise when cold is ordinary. Does yours rattle when the engine is warm?

The chain is wholly internal and lubricated from within. Where is the leak?
 
Some have a recall on them what’s your vin


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
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They could very well be right from what I've heard/experienced, however if you have an oil leak are you sure you're simply not low on oil due to such? Does the rattle lessen as the car warms up?
 
Rattle has nothing to do with timing chain, will be lifters, get correct grade of synthetic oil, new filter, correct oil level
Bob's your uncle easy
 
driven said:
Rattle has nothing to do with timing chain, will be lifters, get correct grade of synthetic oil, new filter, correct oil level
Bob's your uncle easy
Click to expand...
I'd go with this as I said from experience it's more ofthen than not low/incorrect oil. Your biggest issue would be to source where the oil leak is and whether or not it's worth a fix or to keep in mind you're going to have to regularly check and possibly topup your oil. (really depending on value and how long you want it to last)
 
The chain is stuffed that’s what they do but just make sure the timing tensioner isn’t loose they leak oil when loose


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
driven said:
Rattle has nothing to do with timing chain, will be lifters, get correct grade of synthetic oil, new filter, correct oil level
Bob's your uncle easy
Click to expand...

Yeah nah


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Ols04 - please do as dmccurtayne asks, and provide your VIN number. He will be able to check whether your car has been recalled to rectify the faulty timing chain & tensioner. If it was subject to a recall, I believe he can also look up whether the repairs were actually done.

The problem you have is that, while the valve lifters can rattle during a cold start until oil pressure rises, so can a loose timing chain, and if it's the timing chain and you ignore it, then I think you already know it can lead to a very expensive repair!

Cheers

Alec
 
Thanks very much for your help everyone.

The car has been serviced by Peugeot up until the last 2 services. It may well be oil related as the place I bought it gave it the last oil change. In that case I may pick up a bottle of total quartz ineo 0w30 and give it a service.

The noise is only when i start it up first thing in the morning when it's cold, and goes away very quickly. And have to have the engine bay open and Windows down to hear it. Gets a little louder as revs increase to 2000 or so. Runs very smooth apart from that, smooth idle and power seems decent.

The oil leak I haven't investigated yet, I just saw some on the garage floor. The oil shouldn't be low it was serviced 1500km ago.

Will the mechanic be able to tell if it's timing chain if he doesn't hear it on cold start?

Here is my VIN: VF3WM5FYC33918620
 
It had a chain at 38k but that was before the modified stuff was available I would check if the tensioner has a hole at the end about 5mm deep this will show if it has the early tensioner or the late one


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
dmccurtayne said:
It had a chain at 38k but that was before the modified stuff was available I would check if the tensioner has a hole at the end about 5mm deep this will show if it has the early tensioner or the late one


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
Click to expand...

Thanks for your fast reply! I'll have a look tomorrow as I left the car at work tonight.
 
dmccurtayne said:
The chain is stuffed that’s what they do but just make sure the timing tensioner isn’t loose they leak oil when loose


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
Click to expand...

Do you think the rattle may be solved by tightening the timing tensioner? Should I be attempting this first?
 
No sorry should have quantified that just leak


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
dmccurtayne said:
No sorry should have quantified that just leak


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
Click to expand...

No worries thanks.

Booked in to mechanics to stay there overnight so he can hear the rattle upon startup in the morning.
For the full.job tensioner, chain, guides etc, how much should I be paying roughly?
 
Book time would be around 6 hours, but it will inevitably take longer and the mechanics will know this. Parts could be up to $1K at full dealer prices if you need everything.

Since you have a mechanical insurance policy, talk to them first to find someone they approve of to work on it etc. and at least get the process started. One of the consequences of the chain stretch is possible poor running / misfire / pollution warnings and that is less likely to be excluded than noise by itself. You need to be mindful of what the exclusions are in your policy and ensure your claim falls within the policy terms.
 
David S said:
Book time would be around 6 hours, but it will inevitably take longer and the mechanics will know this. Parts could be up to $1K at full dealer prices if you need everything.

Since you have a mechanical insurance policy, talk to them first to find someone they approve of to work on it etc. and at least get the process started. One of the consequences of the chain stretch is possible poor running / misfire / pollution warnings and that is less likely to be excluded than noise by itself. You need to be mindful of what the exclusions are in your policy and ensure your claim falls within the policy terms.
Click to expand...

Great advice thank you
 
Apparently the car had the whole timing kit replaced back in Jan 2011 (38083 k )
The rattle as you describe (at cold starts and then bet. 2000-3000 rpm) is described in a technical service bulletin which says that you should replace the timing kit.
In case the issue is just a leak at the timing tensioner, that's also described in a bulletin which says that you should replace the tensioner seal.
 
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