The Peugeot 604 in British Columbia

[Mike Tippett]

British Columbia VIN Data:

Back in 2014 I got a dump of data from the British Columbia vehicle registration authority of the VINs for all Peugeots that were in their computerized database. I will do a series of posts here about the analysis of these data by model. on the off chance that someone Down Under may find it interesting. I have another request n with the same agency right now for a 2020 update and which will add body colour to the data I got in 2014. Just a note, in 1978 (middle of the 604 era) the population of this Province was under 2.7 million. For now, this is what I have...

Peugeot 604

The 604 was introduced to Canada in 1977. This is a year or so after the beginning of the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia computerized vehicle register so I think I can be confident in saying that every 604 sold in BC is on this list, although a few imported in late 2014 onward from elsewhere won't be on this list (that will be rectified in a while when I get an update from ICBC).

Canadian 604s were quite a bit like the US ones: huge extended bumpers, side marker lights, impact beams inside the doors, but with one significant difference: through the middle of the 1980 model year, Canadian cars had E-Code headlamps just like the French models. This enormously improved not only the looks but also the lighting performance.

604s built under the Canada/USA-Codes of 604AA3 (V6 Auto) and 604AA7 (V6 manual) in 1980 after serial number 6628302, plus every one of the 1982-1984 604 Turbo Diesels, had the late model US 604 headlight treatment - sealed beams with the plastic bezel and grille surround - which to my eyes is even worse than the early USA sealed beam look.

Where the "gearbox unknown" notation is present, it means that the VIN in the system was simply 7 numerals, without the "604xxx" prefix.

British Columbia 604s, all local sales unless otherwise indicated below:

1977 Models (all with E-Code headlights):

604 SL V6 Automatic - 33
604 SL V6 Manual - 13
604 SL V6 unknown gearbox - 10


1978 Models (all with E-Code headlights):

604 SL V6 Automatic - 41
604 SL V6 Manual - 10
604 SL V6 unknown gearbox - 4


1979 Models (all with E-Code headlights):

604 SL V6 Automatic - 18 - (1 of these is a USA model: sealed beams)
604 SL V6 Manual - 24
604 SL V6 gearbox unknown - 3


1980 Models (most with E-Code headlights):

604 SL V6 Automatic - 35 - (20 with E-Code lights, 15 with sealed beams)
604 SL V6 Manual - 5 - (all E-Code lights)
604 SL V6 unknown gearbox - 1 - (E-Code lights)


1982 Models (all with sealed beam/plastic bezel):
604 Turbo Diesel Automatic - 6
604 Turbo Diesel Manual - 2 - (1 of which is a private import from the USA)


1984 Models (all with sealed beam/plastic bezel):

604 Turbo Diesel Automatic - 3

After discounting the two privately imported US models it seems that 206 604s were sold in British Columbia. I should add that the fact that I have all these numbers does not mean all the cars still exist. In fact, it seems that about 10-15% of them were write-offs in collisions (I'm still working on that) and most of the others would have died of rust. Some do still exist, though I haven't seen more than 1 in my local travels in the past few years.

The black one is the 1982 US import and the brown one in my photo from 1977 is one of the earlier Canadian market V6 SL cars.

 

[Dijon16]

Thanks for that Mike, some down-underers do find that interesting. And you can bet that the local dealers there called it a Poo-joe.

The US bumpers and headlights sure give it that chunky look. I dont know how our sales numbers compare.

Note that we did not get the 604 until 1978, I would assume that us being RHD, and so far away, had something to do with that. In order to maximise profits, the importers brought in only one version, the V6 SL with automatic.

It sold for $23,000 here, and for comparison the local Commodore was about $9k. We went up to only 1982, by which time the 505 arrived, which itself was already over $17k.

 

[Sans_sagesse]

Thanks Mike, interesting reading on what is one of the less popular Peugeots built. I've always had a fascination with the 604, for no logical reason. I first saw them when living in Hong Kong in 1978. A colleague of my father's was visiting one summer, and had the use of one of his local friend's apartment and car while the friend was away on hols. The car was a 1977 604 SL auto. We drove somewhere in it, and I vaguely remember him saying it had no guts as we climbed the hill in the overtaking lane at Repulse Bay. The 604 was actually quite popular in HK; there were not literally everywhere but on HK Island where I lived I'd see them around regularly. When returning to Oz in 1981, I don't recall seeing many 604s at all. Finally bought a 604 Ti in 1989, a UK import full of rust (but over the rust and bog it had the most beautiful fresh blue paint!). I learned a lot about buying cars with that experience. It wasn't the best example obviously and I didn't have it long. Love to own a really tidy example again one day.

 

[Armidillo]

Well they sold more 604s in BC than 605s in Australia - only 48 605s were officially sold here!

 

[Russell Hall]

Happy memory of a 604 in 1983. The drought had broken, the land had come back to life and four of us were cruising along a C class highway at 160 kph on the way to the cattle market. Sweeping comfortably around the bends. Put the foot down at that speed and there was an instant response. A true Grand Tourer.
Of course there were problems best not remembered and a collapse in resale values that made them an absolute bargain.

 

[pugrambo]

Thanks for that Mike, some down-underers do find that interesting. And you can bet that the local dealers there called it a Poo-joe.

The US bumpers and headlights sure give it that chunky look. I dont know how our sales numbers compare.

Note that we did not get the 604 until 1978, I would assume that us being RHD, and so far away, had something to do with that. In order to maximise profits, the importers brought in only one version, the V6 SL with automatic.

It sold for $23,000 here, and for comparison the local Commodore was about $9k. We went up to only 1982, by which time the 505 arrived, which itself was already over $17k.

Just shy of 800 were sold here in Aus, mostly leased vehicles

They were on the market alongside the V6 volvo of the time that also finished it's V6 run in '82

 

[pugrambo]

Happy memory of a 604 in 1983. The drought had broken, the land had come back to life and four of us were cruising along a C class highway at 160 kph on the way to the cattle market. Sweeping comfortably around the bends. Put the foot down at that speed and there was an instant response. A true Grand Tourer.
Of course there were problems best not remembered and a collapse in resale values that made them an absolute bargain.

Once you were rolling the vacuum operated dual throat carb was primed ready to go so any pressure on the loud pedal resulted in a great response and launched the car forward

 

[Sans_sagesse]

Just shy of 800 were sold here in Aus, mostly leased vehicles

I'm amazed it was that many. There are very few around now it seems. Aside from the one sold on here recently I haven't seen or heard of a 604 for years. Not saying they are not around, just very rarely mentioned on the interweb locally or seen around the places I venture to. A similar car of the era is the Rover 3500 SD1. There seem to be more of those popping up for sale, at least. A really clean, low-km SD1 has come up for sale in Melbourne recently, very tempting but I'd wait for a very tidy 604 to come onto the market. They must be around, somewhere.

 

[Russell Hall]

They were expensive and difficult to maintain, the main dealer in Melbourne denied any knowledge of their intricacies, parts were on a more expensive level than the 505 and not as readily available, resale values were low and a car that was less than perfect had little justification for expensive repairs. I recall a mate paying $600 for a radiator hose replacement at Regans and the service department telling him their 604 expert had left so they couldn't fix its running problems. Their rust proofing wasn't as good as we had hoped. A prospective buyer of a second hand car made enquiries of the mechanics at Moorabbin and was told don't, too difficult to work on. An owner complaining to Renault about problems was taken into an office, shown the 504 technical manuals and then shown the entire shelf of 604 technical data.
They are around. In recent years a very good Salman maintained 604 was sold out of Casterton. Sold slowly but brought a good price.

 

[julian c b]

I always liked the look the 604 and couldnt understand why they were not popular here.

 

[Dijon16]

I concur. I quite liked the large, flat, boxy look which was nearly the antithesis of the slightly droopy 504. The 505 was a sort of compromise between the two.

To sit in them was majestic. Loved the seats, and the large instrument binnacle, which was a bit like that of a BMW.

Compared to modern cars, I would have thought that they were a piece of cake to work on.

Fairly easy to say why they did not sell. Too dear, particularly compared too their predecessor, and their competition, and not enough oomph.

Be interested to know what their price and competition was like in Canada then. Looks like they did not sell too well there either, and to be perfectly francis, the 604 was not a hit in its home country.

This was due mainly to being released not long after the fuel crisis of 1973, which was not propitious for an inherently uneconomical car. Maybe they should have stuck with the original V8, then the Yanks would have lapped it up.

 

[Russell Hall]

No, it was reliability that killed them. The trade wouldn't touch them and values were down around $6000 for a private sale on immaculate low k's cars after four years. They slipped between the cracks of change of importer and problems were never rectified and the cars were never recalled to fix the engine fire problem that fortunately always allowed the car to be evacuated before it burned out. The mechanics of the day did not find them easy to work on, quite the contrary. They made their opinions known through their bills and the largest Peugeot dealer in Melbourne admitted they were unable to fix driveability problems.
Chris de Fraga wrote a piece in the Melbourne Age detailing the problems and comparing the collapse in values to a Benz. The corporate market lost interest.

 

[Mike Tippett]

Be interested to know what their price and competition was like in Canada then. Looks like they did not sell too well there either, and to be perfectly francis, the 604 was not a hit in its home country.

They were really competing for the European sedan market, which is to say BMW 5 series (though the Peugeot was a little cheaper), Volvo 264, Renault 30, Saab 99/900, Mercedes 240/280. Nissan Maxima was also in that niche a bit later.

 

[Russell Hall]

In 1978 Australian pollution standards had changed and needed unique solutions. Peugeot carried out modifications to their Australian engines that complied but were not entirely satisfactory. That included the 504. So Australian problems were not those of Europe. In 1978 Renault was on the way out in Australia and were not as vigorous in tracking down problems as they once were.
A one year sales spike in Australia of 750 additional units happened in 1978. Likely down to the 604 and the 504 wagon.
The oil shock after 1973 brought a changed automotive environment and was not the ideal time to release a large car.

 

[GillRM]

That's an interesting read for the history of those cars.

 

[505604]

I’m very late to this thread, my apologies.

I picked up a used 604 in about 1999, in Sydney, from a great Peugeot mechanic, who has sadly since died, Peter Portelli. I think that Peter did the conversion of the car from the V6 SL that it was to make it a Turbo Diesel engined car with a 5 speed manual gearbox. It was an amazing touring car and it had pretty good fuel economy, too, even at relatively high speed.

I was living out in the back blocks of NSW at the time and it was very rare for us to see any police. Thankfully. I’m sure that they would not have taken kindly to some of the speeds that I and many other people in the area used to drive. But the 604 with that XD2S engine was as solid as a rock on the road. It was as slow as anything getting anything done from take-off, but once it was going, it would stay cruising all day and night.

I had a couple of problems with mine after a few years of ownership. I began to strip the splines on the prop shaft. And when I had them rebuilt, and I asked the machine shop to harden them, the same thing happened about a year later. When it happened a third time, I was not impressed and neither were my young (at the time) children. Especially when that third time was on a very hot summer afternoon on the Hume Highway, and there was no shade in sight.

I think that the car is on a property in outback South Australia. But last I heard, the rear brakes were seized and it wasn’t going anywhere.

 

[Mike Tippett]

There are still some survivors in Canada, like this one in Quebec. Unlike US models, Canada got the proper headlights.

 

[505604]

No, it was reliability that killed them.

And fires?

I know that I saw one 604 burst into flames whilst both of us were at traffic lights on Liverpool Road at South Strathfield, a suburb of Sydney. Thankfully, there was no other car next to the 604 and the driver got out very quickly. But from a bit of smoke one moment, it was huge flames the next.

As the saying goes these days, well, that escalated quickly.

 

[Russell Hall]

In both Mt Gambier and Hamilton businessmen owned 604's. Within six months of each other they both burned out at intersections in the centre of the respective towns. Which seemed to indicate this was not a random fault. By then JRA had taken over and they wanted nothing to do with the 604. They had problems with the Range Rovers burning out and the decision was taken at corporate level and given to the service manager to do nothing. So in that toxic environment the 604 had no chance of having its problems addressed. The reliability problems of a 604 were minor compared to the 12 cylinder Jaguars.
You should have bought the Casterton 604. The seller was a dealer of sorts with a dodgy reputation but it was a good car. Salman came up and spent a couple of days on it. It was immaculate and brought good money.

 

[julian c b]

There are still some survivors in Canada, like this one in Quebec. Unlike US models, Canada got the proper headlights.

But not the proper bumpers