The dreaded carbon build up on the intake valves...

It's just a service item at about 50,000 km for the PSA 1.6 engine. I don't know how long the 3 pot EB series engines will go for.

Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Audi, Merc, Hyundai, take your pick, are all using direct injection in current engines. The interval is shorter when there is oil vapour in the induction system, ie, turbo bearings.

Solvent sprays are used regularly to minimise the problem, Subaru, Nulon, etc. All these engines have oil vapour traps of varying efficiency.
 
I admit, I didn't know this was a significant problem with all DI engines and I guess that was my point, albeit misinformed. I thought the PSA engine was more prone to the issue. I'd assume the proper service routine (which I understand involves manual cleaning after a fair bit of dismantling) is akin in cost to, say, a timing belt job. Would that be ballpark correct?

I'm in no way running down these cars and that's not my point. I'm just trying to be informed because I'm always asked about second hand car buys. If someone says, oh great no timing belts to change, but there's another equally costly service requirement, then it'd be good to know.
 
The DS3 took all day. Actually a bit in one afternoon, a soak in solvent, and the rest next morning; 6 to 7 hours of labour. A great deal of that time was dismantling and refitting the inlet manifold and injectors and sundry connections which in that small car are !@#$% hard to get at. I didn't have the dealers' tool, or a walnut blast, so it was scraped with a sharp tool, say 3 hours. The blaster would have been quicker at this stage.

Makers have to consider access in future because it is a service item. PSA engines are under that overhanging windscreen with the inlet at the back. Compare that with the access VAG gives. As engines go back to chains or wet belts this job is replacing the belt change. I'd be happier if PSA would bring the engine forward and put the exhaust at the back, but this does mean an inaccessible turbo as in the 2.0 HDI engines.
2010_citroen_ds3_dsport-red.jpg

The large manifold is under and behind the air cleaner visible in the photo. All connections and fixings are by feel, not sight. The battery is removed to get the manifold out. Once off a mirror is needed to see what you are doing.
 
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My recollection is that VAG DPFs, EGR and now GPF (I assume) are situated at the back which also makes life difficult.
Bring back the N-S engine?.


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Stuey said:
What about the extra hassle of cleaning the valves and ports? Or is that something you don't see because it is performed by routine dealer (or other) servicing - so I should have written 'hassle or cost'.
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Sorry - I should have said 4th THP engine - I forgot to include the 308.

By the time I sold the 207 GTi at 92k and 7 yrs it was probably requiring inlet valve deposit cleaning as it was a bit cantankerous when it was cold, but it still drove ok when warmed up. It also never suffered HPFP issues, timing chain issues or turbo oil line leaks, which seems to afflict lots of the "early" THP engines. Perhaps I was really lucky.

The DS3 has received routine cleaning via a spray can, by the dealer and then myself, and after 7.5 yrs still seems happy. It would probably benefit from a scrubbing of the inlet valves, but it's not exhibiting any symptoms that make me want to do it in the near term.

The 208 GTi never received any extra love by the dealer (so no cleaning spray, etc.) and seemed to drive the same from the day I bought it to the day I sold it 4 yrs later. It, I understand, has a heavily revised PCV system compared to the 207 GTi and the DS3. To be fair it only had 55k on it (I think) when I sold it.

I'm not dismissing the issues, I'm just happy they haven't happened to my cars :)
 
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Now have my RCZ. It is the RCZ Mk II THP200 GT six-speed manual. Only 700 RCZ's were ever sold in Australia from a six year production run of only 68,000 units. The double bubble glass rear window became too expensive. Only production car in the world with a double-bubble roof. Built at the Magna factory in Austria. 200 refers to 200 bhp, however stock RCZ's in the UK, where there are lots of them, consistently give 215-225 bhp readings. It is one powerful beastie engine. Long live the Prince.

This is interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McVxxxfN5-s

What a glorious car to drive. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Tyres are 235/40/R19, and the wheel design scoops air onto the brake rotors for cooling. :cool:

So, as for the French Tart, SA459 was performed.

OK, car serviced for it's first time, with me.I did the service. :eek:


Post intercooler pipe? I did it. (drum roll).

Removed the sensor located there. After 40,000 klicks it was OK, but I cleaned it with CRC Contact Cleaner spray. That's what they do in professional service places.

OK - started the THP200 and started to spray into hole left by sensor. Engine became cranky and attempted to stall. So I reduced the pressure from the can and it grumbled away happily? In the dealerships, another person is keeping revs at 2,000.

Emptied half can and let it sit for ten minutes. Started with effort, and continued to spray the remains of the can. Grumbly, spluttery Prince engine.

Left alone for ten minutes, while I changed the air (K&N) and pollen filter.

Replaced post intercooler sensor and started engine. Cranked over for a moment and barked into life. I revved the engine and white smoke erupted from the exhaust and settled down. Ha, I thought. SA459 has done it's job.
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Got a red engine fault light up on the dials, as I expected. So got my diagnosis tool and found two codes. P this, and P that.
At this time with my experience using SA459, I didn't record them this time. Anyhow, I reset the codes to zero, and wahoo the engine kicked into life with no red engine light.

Took it for a spin down a winding road and dragged off a Toyota for fun. 6,000 rpm.

No problems and I know it did it's work.

SA459 recommended.

Trivia:

Australia is the 2nd largest buyer of Subarus after Japan. They are forkin' everywhere!
Subi engines (boxer) are prone for sludge, so they created this product for their engines. But as mechanics move from shop to shop, the secrets of SA459 are told in Oz.
 

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I hear what you say. And you are right.

So the wheels don't drag air in at all, but I found this:

[FONT=DDG_ProximaNova]Discs with a diameter of 340mm and thickness of 32mm, are mounted on an aluminium hub. This contributes to the weight-saving and [/FONT][FONT=DDG_ProximaNova]cooling[/FONT][FONT=DDG_ProximaNova] performance due to exposure from the 19" wheels, derived from the Alcon racing experience, to [/FONT][FONT=DDG_ProximaNova]provide[/FONT][FONT=DDG_ProximaNova]brake[/FONT][FONT=DDG_ProximaNova] durability and outstanding performance, so braking from 80mph to zero requires less than 61 metres.

Or maybe thats why the car pulls to the right . . . [/FONT]:adrink:
 
207cc Sport said:
The double bubble glass rear window became too expensive.
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And this doesn't sound right. Before we bought our RCZ, I got a quote for a rear windscreen, out of interest, as I figured it would be expensive. They're not. Brand new aftermarket, in stock in Australia, $395. The bloke said that forming the screen was no different to forming any other screen, and they just needed the right mould, as per any other screen. He did note that it came in a thicker than usual box, though.
 
I have noticed that SA459 prices have increased. The UK RCZ forum had never heard of the stuff, and now can't get their hands on enough of it. :tongue:
 
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207cc Sport said:
Folks, doing editing, the whole freakin' original stuff vanished . . .
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FYI the Wayback Machine https://web.archive.org/ saves copies of most of the web on a regular basis - here's your post from 18 Jun 2018, before you accidentally lost it : https://web.archive.org/web/2018061...41-dreaded-carbon-build-up-intake-valves.html


207cc Sport said:
The dreaded carbon build up on the intake valves – BMW/PSA Prince THP 1.6 lit direct fuel injection engine.

At about 70,000 (about 2 1/2 years ago), I started getting the olde’ depollution fault code.
Did some research and concluded that the intake valves were coated with crud.

It was a six-hour job to remove the intake manifold, expose the valves and clean the blighters.

I used SA459 Subaru top cylinder cleaner - tip from my Pug mechanic. Closed two sets of valves and then filled the intake port holes with SA459 . Waited 15 minutes and then used wire brushes and picks to get the crud off. Then, (and you must have an air compressor), blew all the crap out on to a cloth, then repeated the operation three more times. Then onto the other two sets of valves and did the same procedure. This job alone is about two and a half hours. I think the dealership will do this for circa $650.00+

Not easy and you need a mirror to see into the intake ports. At the beginning they were horrible. Nasty carbon crud on the valve tops and stems. When finished, they were 85% cleaner.

Ongoing preventative measures. I bought 12 cans of SA459 from eBay and run a can through at every oil change.

When engine is hot, remove the breather pipe from the rear right hand side of the cam cover and spray half of the can into this hose. Wait 15 minutes and then start the engine and empty the remaining contents of the can into the same hose with the engine running. Handy to have another person here to keep the revs up a bit.

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You may get a fault code, but I use my $20 Chinese cheapie to erase the code. I don't get any fault codes from this procedure now.

Things are now looking good.
biggrin.gif


Cheers…
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Last edited by 207cc Sport; 20th April 2016 at 04:45 PM. Reason: typos
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Nomgle thanks. Good man.

CC: dated April 2016.

The dreaded carbon build up on the intake valves – BMW/PSA Prince THP 1.6 lit direct fuel injection engine.

At about 70,000 (about 2 1/2 years ago), I started getting the olde’ depollution fault code.
Did some research and concluded that the intake valves were coated with crud.

It was a six-hour job to remove the intake manifold, expose the valves and clean the blighters.

I used SA459 Subaru top cylinder cleaner - tip from my Pug mechanic. Closed two sets of valves and then filled the intake port holes with SA459 . Waited 15 minutes and then used wire brushes and picks to get the crud off. Then, (and you must have an air compressor), blew all the crap out on to a cloth, then repeated the operation three more times. Then onto the other two sets of valves and did the same procedure. This job alone is about two and a half hours. I think the dealership will do this for circa $650.00+

Not easy and you need a mirror to see into the intake ports. At the beginning they were horrible. Nasty carbon crud on the valve tops and stems. When finished, they were 85% cleaner.

Ongoing preventative measures. I bought 12 cans of SA459 from eBay and run a can through at every oil change.

When engine is hot, remove the breather pipe from the rear right hand side of the cam cover and spray half of the can into this hose. Wait 15 minutes and then start the engine and empty the remaining contents of the can into the same hose with the engine running. Handy to have another person here to keep the revs up a bit.

Advertisement​


You may get a fault code, but I use my $20 Chinese cheapie to erase the code. I don't get any fault codes from this procedure now.

Things are now looking good.
biggrin.gif


Cheers…
 
I found that an overnight soaking was needed. A short wait didn't cut it.
 
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