The Adblue product and its suitability in Peugeots
- Thread starter WAOFFROG
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I know this is the Pug forum, but some of this applies to Pugs too, so ... Gary, your car is a 2.2 4-speed C5 and the first Citroen model sold in Australia with a FAP. So it left the factory with about 3 litres of Eolys in a rigid tank under the left rear seat and puts a squirt in the fuel tank when you fill up. It would originally have been filled with Eolys 176, which was replaced as already mentioned/linked. Yes, when the car **thinks** it has run out of Eolys, it will throw a depollution fault. It has no level sensor.
They simply need a decent run every few hundred kms to allow the FAP regeneration process to work and it would be assuming it has a working EGR valve. Just driving around Sydney on 70km+ roads with free moving traffic is typically enough, but to and from the station every day will cause grief. You can manually force the regeneration via Lexia/DiagBox, but the temperatures are very high and will burn your grass and maybe paint on concrete. Beware! I would say no to blocking off the EGR valve, but evidently some people are happy to do so. The Eolys is designed to lower the regeneration combustion temperature and probably also has some fine particle agglomeration role.
Two particular concerns with the 2.2HDi 4 speed C5 are 1) coolant leaking to the air side of the intercooler and being sucked into the engine (bypass it to avoid bent rods) and 2) fuel leaking from the fuel filter plug (remove the seal) into the engine harness and connected items. If you have a random Christmas tree display, look at items connected to the engine harness for fuel residue in the sockets.
Recent PSA HDis will have a catalytic converter, particle filter (using Eolys) and, if badged BlueHDI, the Adblue/Urea SCR system, connected together in that order.
They simply need a decent run every few hundred kms to allow the FAP regeneration process to work and it would be assuming it has a working EGR valve. Just driving around Sydney on 70km+ roads with free moving traffic is typically enough, but to and from the station every day will cause grief. You can manually force the regeneration via Lexia/DiagBox, but the temperatures are very high and will burn your grass and maybe paint on concrete. Beware! I would say no to blocking off the EGR valve, but evidently some people are happy to do so. The Eolys is designed to lower the regeneration combustion temperature and probably also has some fine particle agglomeration role.
Two particular concerns with the 2.2HDi 4 speed C5 are 1) coolant leaking to the air side of the intercooler and being sucked into the engine (bypass it to avoid bent rods) and 2) fuel leaking from the fuel filter plug (remove the seal) into the engine harness and connected items. If you have a random Christmas tree display, look at items connected to the engine harness for fuel residue in the sockets.
Recent PSA HDis will have a catalytic converter, particle filter (using Eolys) and, if badged BlueHDI, the Adblue/Urea SCR system, connected together in that order.
Waoffrog,
Having read the 'string' of messages and am now far better informed than I could have hoped; thank you all very much. It is also a very clear demonstration of the value of the Forum!
As I had said, perhaps I should have gone to the forum before going to the service provider!
What is surprising to me is that from this forum there is a wealth of unofficial info., though much of it will be based on the official info. available. However, it is info. that should be available to a Nation wide auto service organisation which publicizes, on their web site, a training regime for its operators. In reality perhaps they would be better off signing up to this, and other forums, for their information!
Having read the 'string' of messages and am now far better informed than I could have hoped; thank you all very much. It is also a very clear demonstration of the value of the Forum!
As I had said, perhaps I should have gone to the forum before going to the service provider!
What is surprising to me is that from this forum there is a wealth of unofficial info., though much of it will be based on the official info. available. However, it is info. that should be available to a Nation wide auto service organisation which publicizes, on their web site, a training regime for its operators. In reality perhaps they would be better off signing up to this, and other forums, for their information!
AFAIK DEF (AdBlue) is injected into the catalyst, immediately upstream, to limit NOx emissions. That is ONE system.
Eolys is a (PSA specific?) additive that is injected into the DPF to improve the regeneration (self cleaning) process. That is the SECOND system.
Don’t conflate the two!
NOx is one harmful emission and PARTICULATES are the other harmful emission from diesel powered vehicles, dealt with in entirely different ways.
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Eolys is a (PSA specific?) additive that is injected into the DPF to improve the regeneration (self cleaning) process. That is the SECOND system.
Don’t conflate the two!
NOx is one harmful emission and PARTICULATES are the other harmful emission from diesel powered vehicles, dealt with in entirely different ways.
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Thanks for the info.
Having had the car "on the Lexia" yesterday shows how much our (more recent) cars rely on the electronics, and that the mechanic needs to be pretty up to speed. We found a few faults, some are unimportant, others were more fiddly, and clearing fault codes, another exercise again. You do need a pretty sound knowledge of all of the codes, causes, and remedies.
We are still working on some rectifications....
Having had the car "on the Lexia" yesterday shows how much our (more recent) cars rely on the electronics, and that the mechanic needs to be pretty up to speed. We found a few faults, some are unimportant, others were more fiddly, and clearing fault codes, another exercise again. You do need a pretty sound knowledge of all of the codes, causes, and remedies.
We are still working on some rectifications....
The owner's manual in these cars confirms this, with a page or two on AdBlue and SCR and a page or two on the DPF regeneration and additive.
ServiceBox also has both systems covered as well.
Here is a page on the new system:
https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsroom/automotive-innovation/blue-hdi-diesel-engine/
In particular the statement containing "additive particle filter" should hopefully clear things up
The eolys additive/system is seemingly a complete secret to the general public.......including most PSA diesel owners.
You are not expected to do any topping up for yourself.......certainly not like DEF (AdBlue).
Do PSA DPFs give a longer service life than, say VW, because of it?.
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You are not expected to do any topping up for yourself.......certainly not like DEF (AdBlue).
Do PSA DPFs give a longer service life than, say VW, because of it?.
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Perhaps. The additive tank itself is supposed to last 180k before needing to be replaced/refilled (depending on type). Even this, though, depends on your fuel tank refilling habits.
How long the DPF lasts I think is entirely dependent on how you use the vehicle (ie. 3km city runs to drop the kids at school vs longer runs; stop-start low speed city traffic, country car, etc).
on the basis that there are no stupid questions and in the hope not entirely off-topic -
Why is ash content of engine oil - Quartz Ineo, etc., so critical, given it is hardly a consumable?
Why is ash content of engine oil - Quartz Ineo, etc., so critical, given it is hardly a consumable?
At a guess, only to the extent that some oil is consumed and dependent on engine age and condition.
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The owner's manual in these cars confirms this, with a page or two on AdBlue and SCR and a page or two on the DPF regeneration and additive.
ServiceBox also has both systems covered as well.
Here is a page on the new system:
https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsroom/automotive-innovation/blue-hdi-diesel-engine/
In particular the statement containing "additive particle filter" should hopefully clear things up
Hi Simon,
Thanks for the reply.
I should have made my question clearer. You had responded to the question 'Just to clarify, eolys is still used in ALL current PSA diesels?.' by saying 'Yes it is. ' - but that's not correct.
Adblue is used in the latest PSA diesels.
Just wanted to clear that up.
Thanks
Justin
Both AdBlue and eolys are used in all BlueHDi diesels.
AdBlue post-combustion injected into the exhaust and eolys (DPF additive) pre-combustion dosed into the fuel tank.
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Simon's correct. The PSA FAP system injects a measured amount of Eolys into the fuel when filling up. It then coats the soot when the fuel is burnt. It's normally completely automated and should last around 180K, maybe more, without any intervention. The BlueHDI versions are the only ones that have the additional Adblue SCR system added to them. It uses too much urea to be a lifetime fill, so there's a reservoir that's usually filled via a neck in the boot. For a Picasso, 'full' is meant to be 17 litres and that might last you 20K, but the odds are you will need to top up before that. It's pressurised by a pump in the reservoir to around 7 Bar and then sprayed into the exhaust system. It adds a little to the running costs. Tap water or urine as DIY substitutes will probably poison the catalyst!
Low ash oil is specified because some of it is burnt and that leaves behind ash that doesn't burn off in the FAP regeneration process. Eventually, this can lead to permanent clogging of the FAP and shorten it's life. Therefore, low-ash oil can extend the life of the FAP. The correct oil may also reduce EGR clogging.
Low ash oil is specified because some of it is burnt and that leaves behind ash that doesn't burn off in the FAP regeneration process. Eventually, this can lead to permanent clogging of the FAP and shorten it's life. Therefore, low-ash oil can extend the life of the FAP. The correct oil may also reduce EGR clogging.
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To me the costs associated with the diesel SCR system, the DPF, the eolys system and the EGR/cooler system, when factored in as maintenance/repair/replacement costs, make the economics questionable.......if the priority is fuel cost saving.
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Correct.
urea is not urine.
It's made from ammonia and CO[SUB]2 [/SUB]and is commonly used as fertilizer. In the case of adblue, because it is being used as a chemical catalyst, it is of vary high quality and purity, so DIYing it is not realy a good idea.
I've heard some surprising comments from friends on how much adblue needs to be used on a regular basis, which sounds a serious added cost.
Does the quantity needed vary considerably from model to model?
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Does the quantity needed vary considerably from model to model?
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yes.
In my 308 using about 15 litres every 20,000 - 30,000km (depending on driving conditions), at a $1 per litre for adblue, the added cost from the SCR system is negligible.
It's a small but persistent cost. Maybe, work on a rule of thumb of 1 litre per 1,000km. It should go a bit further, but that would vary with the type of use. In something like a BlueHDi Picasso, top up every 10K and you won't run out! Supercheap sell Gulf Western 20L for $53 and Penrite 10L for $57, so the cost varies with the source. Cheaper from a nozzle where available.
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I seem to recall something about the truck AdBlue not being the same and thus not a source for cars. Any idea what the difference is?.
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Not 100% sure. It may be the same but dispensed from a high flow bowser, so no good for a car.
Here is some helpful info on Adblue from Cummins, with a truck focus:
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/s...duct_lit/asia_pacific_brochures/LT36330AU.pdf
Product info for the two products sold by SuperCheap:
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/penblue-adblue-def-diesel-exhaust-fluid
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/product/clearonox-adblue/
All of these are 32.5% Urea and they look to be much the same.
Here is some helpful info on Adblue from Cummins, with a truck focus:
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/s...duct_lit/asia_pacific_brochures/LT36330AU.pdf
Product info for the two products sold by SuperCheap:
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/penblue-adblue-def-diesel-exhaust-fluid
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/product/clearonox-adblue/
All of these are 32.5% Urea and they look to be much the same.
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