Should I ?!

R17G

R17G

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Fellow Frogger
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I am contenplating a Renault 25 that is for sale. It's a 87 model, auto. For its age the body seems good, but the dash is quite badly cracked from the sun. It appears to have been well looked after mechanically. Its just a bit tired. I have always liked these cars, but don't know if its a wise purchase. Are these cars reliable? (Generally speaking)What should I look out for? How much should I pay? My other car is a R17G so I'm not expecting it to be perfect. I would be grateful for any help. :D
 
R17G:
I am contenplating a Renault 25 that is for sale. It's a 87 model, auto. For its age the body seems good, but the dash is quite badly cracked from the sun. It appears to have been well looked after mechanically. Its just a bit tired. I have always liked these cars, but don't know if its a wise purchase. Are these cars reliable? (Generally speaking)What should I look out for? How much should I pay? My other car is a R17G so I'm not expecting it to be perfect. I would be grateful for any help. :D
Click to expand...
Turn back....do not let want be your master. a_drink

<small>[ 06 August 2002, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: BogMaster ]</small>
 
Hi there,

At last, someone is making a wise choice. I have had 3 R25's which included my current 1988 GTX.
As far as mechanicals go they are extremely reliable. I have done 308000 on my car (it's an auto - and hasn't been rebuilt) and it still feels great.

You may have problems with the digital readouts on the dash, but most things can be repaired quite easily, especially for a current Renault owner as yourself.

They are very comfortable, and are great motorway cruisers.

Check if the auto has been re-built, if not make sure the fluid is not brown, but the normal red transmission oil colour. Also make sure there is no slippage.

How many K's has it done?

Spare parts are still easy to come by and aren't that expensive.

I paid $4,000 for my 1988 GTX, which is in excellent condition, with 4 new michelins and leather upholstry.

A standard GTX in a similar condition should fetch around $3200 to $3500.

If the car is only slightly above average pay around $2800 - $3200.

A 1985 model with a defunct auto box should fetch around $300 to $500!

Hope this helps slightly.

Oh, the 1987 model has the bonus of being a completely unleaded engine tuned for Australia's crappy low octane fuels.

Let me know if you have anymore questions

Luke
 
Thanks Luke,

A couple of questions. I said it was a 87 model, but it was complianced in 87, built in 86. Does this make it leaded? The car has been owned by 1 family since 88. So has alot of history. The transmission has had some work, twice, in 92 and some last year. Forgot to check the colour of the trans oil when I checked the engine though. He appears to have kept in mechanically in good order, but it needs some TLC. The seats and carpet appear quite good and all of the electronics including the talking voice appear to work. What concerns me is the cracked dash which is quite warped. Its grey, is it a great drama to replace? Motor seems good, it runs smoothly and doesn't blow smoke. Its done approx 190 000 KM.
If the transmission does go, is it possible to replace with a manual?
The body isn't showing any signs of rust, but has some of the usual scrapes etc. A good polish would do wonders.
He wants $3000 with 4 new tyres (I think), roadworthy and rego to November. Given that it is a bit tired in the trim and body is this too steep? Also noticed some oil around the sump, apparently roadworthy guy is not worried. Given that the engine needs a good clean, should I worry?
Thanks for your help.
Craig cheers!
 
A Renault 25 is like the proverbial little girl with a curl, when they are good they are very good, when they are bad they can be terrible!

The unleaded version has "Renault Injection" cast into the alloy air intake, also it will have the narrow filler neck on the petrol tank.

The auto trans seems to have a mind of its own, and they either seem to work, or just present the owner with a lot of expensive bills! Swapping to a manual requires the finding of a proper 25 manual gearbox (rare in itself) or stuffing around with a Fuego gearbox and adapting the 25 electronic speedo drive as the Fuego NG3 has only a cable drive. It can be done but you would want to get the car quite cheap.

Finding another dash could be difficult (although Haakon seems to have a full blue interior set for sale) 25's are not exactly thick on the ground. If it is the part over the instruments that pops off fairly easily, otherwise it will be a whole dashboard replacement if you really want to replace it. Alternatively you could get a carpet mat made up for it.

190,000 k's on the motor is not a real lot, but it will need another cam belt now or by 200,000. These motors seem to have an economical life of around 300,000, thereafter getting closer to overhaul. Check for proper maintenance though like regular coolant and oil changes. The valve guide seals have been known to wear.

What is the paint like on the body? Metallic? If it has had a lot of sun the clear coat will soon start coming off making the car look like a bad case of dandruff. Beware of dull metallic finishes, they rarely polish up well for long, and it is close to the dandruff stage. Take account of that in the purchase price.

Check to see where the oil leak is coming from, it could be a weepy steering rack that soon needs an overhaul, leaky driveshaft seals, trans cooler or some other imminent repair job.

Simon
 
Personally I love the R25. It was a car ahead of its time.
I dont know mechanically much about them but the Transmission should be very expensive if there is an issue.
I love the interiors on these cars actually. Maybe you can cover the dash (like the other person) said with a mat or something.
They are a lovely car. Id have one actually if it was the right price. Just check all the service history on the car & make sure has been properly maintained then try to knock the price down..
My 2c worth... dance
 
IMO, if it's got an auto, I wouldn't go near it, unless you fancy doing the manual conversion. Really it doesn't matter how "good" the auto is, ultimately it'll most likely be the thing that puts the car off the road.
 
Hi Craig

It sounds like a reasonable deal, as long as you have history of services etc, and you check the transmission oil. You could probably knock $500 or so and the guy will more than likely accept that offer.

If it's an 1986, it will be a leaded car. Check just the same though. A B29E is the leaded version and a B29B is the unleaded version.

You can run the leaded version on PULP or Optimax, and they go better that on the LRP. ie no pinging on loads and in summer etc.

If all the electrics work, that is a bonus.

To change the car to a manual, is or can be difficult, as there are very, very few manual R25 gearbox kits lying around. As Matt said, you can put a Fuego (NG) box in (even though they are not as good as the UN! R25 'box, but you need to have a connection for the electric speedo.

I have been looking for a kit for some time and have not been able to locate one.

Personally, if you think it is in good condition, and are happy with the price, I would buy it. I guess I am biased as I am a R25 owner (have been since 1993)!

Regards

Luke
 
Thanks everyone for the advice. After weighing it all up I think I'll forget this one and look for a better example. (As much as I'd like to let my heart rule my head). So if anyone ever has a ULP R25 for sale let me know.

Craig approve
 
Hi Craig,

I have had my R25 for about four months now, and I have to say I have become quite attached. My R25 started life as an auto but was given the manual conversion using R25 equipment some years ago. Having never driven an auto, I am unable to offer you an opinion in that regard.

The 5-speed is neat enough, and seems set up specifically for city driving (although I really don't know much about gearboxes). It can be driven through roundabouts in fourth gear without any jumpiness (not that I do, just that it can!). At 110 km/h in 5th, it revs at about 3,500rpm.

Others have pointed out the niggly problems with the electronics, but these are relatively easy to overcome.

Mechanically, the cars seem very reliable. Maintenance is not an issue, as most parts can be bought direct from the usual outlets at normal market prices. I have not had any problem getting the standard servicing items such as plugs and filters.

Personally, I would like at some stage to spend some money having the engine reconditioned with a view to getting greater performance. I don't know if anyone has done this with a 25, but I would be very interested to hear what they are capable of with a bit of money spent under the hood. I think in standard form the output is around 89kW, so I guess 100+ would not be too difficult with the right parts and (possibly) a bigger exhaust.

Sepaking of which, am I the only person who thinks that it is better to put $2-3k into an older car and get a really nice car for the grand sum of $5-6k than to plonk down $20-30k for newer cars which give similar performance without the 'uniquness' of something a little older?

Just a thought...
 
Hi Skippy,
Must say I agree about buying an older car and spending some money on it. After owning a couple of relatively new cars and watching them depreciate while also paying interest to the bank, I've decided that an older car is the way to go. I still would love a R25 and am still kicking myself that I ever sold my R20. I really should buy a wagon as I have a big dog, however tell me where I can find a nice R18 Wagon! (I like R12's but could never convince the wife!). Well I suppose I could get a 505 wagon (shock horror) but I haven't seen a good manual yet.
I suppose I'll have to wait 10 yrs or so for the laguna wagon to get cheaper. Mind you can't wait till then!
Thanks for the input. And if anyone wants to sell their manual R25, I'm interested (Sorry had to put that in clown ).

Craig
 
Craig,

I can relate to the new car v's old car thing. To reduce our family's monthly outlay significantly, I just sold our newish (1998) Toyota Prado and bought a 1987 505 wagon for many many thousand less than the cost of the Prado. The 505 needs work - the auto is stuffed so now is a good time to put a 5 speed manual in but I don't care as I am better off every month and I don't pay FBT on the Pug!

Cheers,
James S
 
Hi Again

I have been told that it is a very easy task to fit a turbo onto my R25 as it is a B29B with ULP and that precious knock sensor. The guy that said this can be done said no mods, apart from the turbo necessary - if I run at a relatively low boost.

I think a good cam grind would do wonders, apparantly extractors don't do much for the system as it is already an fairly free flowing exhaust - to the cat anyway!

I really need a manual box before I do any performance upgrades though - Please anyone - I need one!!!!!

Luke
 
Luke,

Very interesting about the turbo. You have me pondering the possibilities...I can already see my R25 doing Targa Tasmania. dance

I don't know if this will help, but the guy who did the manual conversion of my 25 is likely (no guarantees of course) to be in a good position to track down a manual box for you.

The two guys that did the work are both in their 50's, and have an extended history working for and with the French makers. They are a simple two-man operation, working in a cost-effective little grotty workshop, the way real mechanics should. No flashy signage etc, which has simply meant for me (i) no need for resuscitation after being presented with a work bill, as they don't need to factor overheads into their parts prices etc; and (ii) a feeling of reassurance, as they always have four or five frogmobiles out the front lined up for servicing etc.

Anyway, all that is only by way of saying that if (and it's a big if) these guys are able to help you out, I personally feel that you would not be getting ripped off etc. However, subject to the caveat that has been oft mentioned in other forums, that my positive experiences of their services may not necessarily be the consensus. mallet

Anyway, give Mark or Dave a ring at Transmec Automotive: ph (07) 5572-5288. Unfortunately, it will be long distance from the ACT to the Gold Coast, but if they can get what you want, I'm sure you can arrange shipping etc.

Side note for Craig - I notice you live on the Coast also. If you want their address, let me know. They are in Miami, which may not be convenient for you.

Hope this helps,
Skip. cheers!
 
Thanks Skippy, just found out about them myself. The guy who is selling the 25 I looked at has his serviced there. He told me good things about them.
cheers!
 
If that guy is who I think he is, he'll be the one who was the foreman for Harry Beachley (or "Beastly" as they affectionately called him) at Master Motors who were on the Highway at Mermaid Beach. They were Pug and Renault dealers for the Gold Coast when I was the sales manager there in about 1980. Ask him if he can still do a clutch change on an R-12 in half an hour on a Friday afternoon in the middle of the traditional Friday Arvo booze-up and see if he remembers me & doing that. dance
I kinda off sided by holding things but the main job I had was lighting the fags and uncapping the stubbies cheers!
He was an experienced Ren/Pug mechanic even then; I think that's all he's really ever worked on. If it's possible to do a good job, then he should be capable. I think his surname is Tranter but I'm not real sure; the old memory's not what it used to be after all that time :rolleyes:

Alan S
 
LukeCass:

I have been told that it is a very easy task to fit a turbo onto my R25 as it is a B29B with ULP and that precious knock sensor. The guy that said this can be done said no mods, apart from the turbo necessary - if I run at a relatively low boost.

Luke
Click to expand...
Can't see the point of turboing a 25 really, apart from being very fast in a straight line the similar engined turbo 21 (Quadra excepted) was seen as being a bit of a handful.

But Eurocars in WA did a factory approved turbo conversion on the same engined (as the B29B ULP car) 21TXE back in the late 80's. So there would be some expertise and knowledge available.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the significance of the engine being a B29B? Is it a model particularly suited to modifying? Incidentally, what is the real advantage (if any) of 16-valve over 8-valve motors? Can an 8-valve motor still be made to perform?

Cheers,
Skip.

p.s. Alan - I think you are referring to Dave, but I could be wrong. I will ask him next time I am in. They are terrific mechanics, and always willing to just walk you through a problem etc. Should be more like them. a_drink
 
The B29B is the later 25 which takes unleaded petrol. Basically the same as the earlier car (B29E), but with lower compression, less power and a cat fitted.

Neither stock AUS spec motor is particularly suited to modifying, although there are twin Weber manifolds available and the motors have been fitted to replica Alpine A110's overseas. There are also overseas different versions of the same motor with a 12 valve head on later 21's and 25's as well as the 21 Turbo which was again heavily modified.

In a very small nutshell a 16 valve motor (N/A in a 21 or 25) breath better allowing it to perform better but that is being very simplistic. There are a lot of other modifications as well. Just fitting a multi valve head to a motor won't necessarily improve performance per se.
 
"I think you are referring to Dave, but I could be wrong"

Sorry; yes it was Dave. He used to live at Nerang from memory. I say memory because I think I went there after a Friday session a couple of times :D things became a bit blurred after that dance
He'd be about 6 foot tall, used to have fairly long blondish hair & if I remember he was getting a bit thin on top even then; that sound like him?
He used to always walk the customer through the job even when I worked with him. He always had a good relationship with his customers and I would bet there would still be people getting their cars done by him that were customers back when I was there. As you say, should be more like him. I lost contact with him when I left due to me setting up my own business in another field and when you do that down the Gold Coast you have to give it your undivided attention. blush blush approve

Alan S
 
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