Scenic tranny questions

I've seen auto transmission filters loaded up with plenty of contaminates embedded when working for Fluidrive [when their store was in Brunswick] in Melbourne.
That's of no real consequence here as I'm not pulling an engine or the transmission.

Will report back tomorrow when the job's done. Thx JG
 
Hi John I will say this but know will have read the correct method to drain the oil and get the level correct on refilling again.

It must be done with the engine running. So with the car on stands or hoist so the level tube and drain plug is easily accessible with the car level and running. Run it long enough to get the approx 60deg temp. Not critical.

As already said the internal filter is not accessible by dropping the pan so probably not worth dropping the pan unless you wish to look inside it for assessment. The "pan" of course is on the front side ;)

There are two styles of drain plug and level tube. the early type has the double concentric hex type. The later type has the single drain plug with socket recess and the plastic level tube is up the hole and removed with an 8mm allen key long end.

Do not wait for the dripping to cease completely on the level check. When it stops running is good. :rolleyes:
jaahn
You would find dozens of questions(hundreds ?) about why my transmission does not work correctly after I changed the oil on this forum. The box was usually under filled because the engine was not running during he level check. o_O
 
PLEASE SOMEONE CHECK & CONFIRM MY CALCULATIONS!

Hopefully adding to the knowledge pool/base for these AL4 & DPO transmissions & making things a little easier.

We’ve drained the ‘expanded’ ATF from a DPO transmission @ 60°C & it measures 3.5 litre [or whatever one actually measures].

Check actual temperatures with mum’s digital cooking thermometer & record.

That ATF unless the transmission has lost fluid must be replaced with that exact amount of ATF but the new fluid may be @ 25°C, so what do we do?

Thermal expansion [or contraction] for oils & transmission fluids is 0.0007/ °C or 0.07%/°C

So in our example where there is a 35°C differential x 0.0007 = 0.0245 or 2.45% /°C decrease in volume from 3.5l or ~ 2.643l.

So we have ~ 2.643l of refill ATF @ 25°C to equal 3.5l @ 60°C.

This means 3 oil changes from 8l of oil. JG.
 
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You’re overthinking it. Throw in the whole 4 litre bottle of fluid, drive it around the block, and do the level check procedure.
 
Hi.

I dissagree with your calculations.

Short answer: The amount of the volumetric expansion/contraction of mineral oil over 35°C temperature change, is approaching the measuring error using a container with coarse side volume marking lines.


Longer answer: The 0.0007/ °C you mention above is a ratio. So here are my calculations:

60 - 25 = 35 °C
0.0007 x 35 = 0.0245, as a ratio of the change in volume.
3.5Lt x 1,000 = 3,500 mL (or CC)
Therefore 3,500 mL / 1.0245 = 3,416 mL
Therefore the initial volume was 3,416 mL at 25 °C
This is a volume change of 84 mL

Cheers
 
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RINGER said:
PLEASE SOMEONE CHECK & CONFIRM MY CALCULATIONS!

Hopefully adding to the knowledge pool/base for these AL4 & DPO transmissions & making things a little easier.

We’ve drained the ‘expanded’ ATF from a DPO transmission @ 60°C & it measures 3.5 litre [or whatever one actually measures].

Check actual temperatures with mum’s digital cooking thermometer & record.

That ATF unless the transmission has lost fluid must be replaced with that exact amount of ATF but the new fluid may be @ 25°C, so what do we do?

Thermal expansion [or contraction] for oils & transmission fluids is 0.0007/ °C or 0.07%/°C

So in our example where there is a 35°C differential x 0.0007 = 0.0245 or 2.45% /°C decrease in volume from 3.5l or ~ 2.643l.

So we have ~ 2.643l of refill ATF @ 25°C to equal 3.5l @ 60°C.

This means 3 oil changes from 8l of oil. JG.
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Haakon said:
You’re overthinking it. Throw in the whole 4 litre bottle of fluid, drive it around the block, and do the level check procedure.
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I will agree with Haakon that you are over thinking this and making the job far harder than it needs to be.

I would of done the oil change at ambient temp without warming up the gearbox, This way you just put in exactly what you took out.

Considering you need to do this about three times it won't matter if you are out by 50 ml.

On the last change do the level check and all should be good.
 
And don’t always assume it had the right amount in it before ;)

Throw in the whole 4 litres, you’ll get a smidge of extra flushing out of the deal and it’s a good amount of extra to drain for the level check.

Do it warm but not hot. A spin around the block is about right to mix it all up nicely and get it to a good temperature.
 
Haakon said:
And don’t always assume it had the right amount in it before ;)

Throw in the whole 4 litres, you’ll get a smidge of extra flushing out of the deal and it’s a good amount of extra to drain for the level check.

Do it warm but not hot. A spin around the block is about right to mix it all up nicely and get it to a good temperature.
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Hmm I always just did a longish warm drain (over lunch) on stands. Refit the drain plug, fill tube etc. Then fill with the 4Lt. Start and warm it up, (10min) run through the gears, till the transmission gets almost too hot to handle. Remove the overflow tube plug and you get out about half a liter, sometimes a bit more or less on different cars. Put the plug back in !! DONE ! :approve:
Note I also had a couple of VW transporters in the family that had the earlier model auto transmission to the AL4. I did them regularly to try and get a life out of them. Hmm never worked either as they always failed. Same plastic overflow tube design and level check procedure.
Jaahn
 
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Done once & getting ready for 2 tomorrow then finish up. seems as though the gear lever has disconnected from the cable some how ~ lever doesn't move cable inside engine compartment & cable from inside engine compartment doesn't move the lever.
Don't know how they became separated but will need to get in there [2002 Scenic]. JG.
 
RINGER said:
Done once & getting ready for 2 tomorrow then finish up. seems as though the gear lever has disconnected from the cable some how ~ lever doesn't move cable inside engine compartment & cable from inside engine compartment doesn't move the lever.
Don't know how they became separated but will need to get in there [2002 Scenic]. JG.
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Maybe drive it for a bit with one change. Would be interesting to see if you get iterative improvement.
 
Just did the first start today on the DPO in a scenic that i did a full rebuild of the transmission on for a bloke here in Hobart.

I hate first starts after rebuilds, always nerve wracking! But it primed all the empty galleries inside 10 seconds and engaged gear.

Went for a spin around the block and reset fluid level and so far so good. Minor panic with a nasty rattle at idle, but I can make the noise wiggling the engine with it off so owner has something loose to track down from his install.

But forgot my CLIP so the computers are all having a hissy fit from being unplugged and all the error codes from when the old trans failed. So far so good though.
 
A POINTER for those doing this oil change:
The oil drain has very thing securing nuts & these could be easily damaged when using ring spanners &/or sockets.
It is essential to hold the spanner end squarely in place on the nut when loosening/tightening to avoid rounding off.
Here is a simple modification I made to both size spanners 27mm & 19mm by grinding the end that secures on the nuts flat.

Spanner mod.jpg
 
RINGER said:
A POINTER for those doing this oil change:
The oil drain has very thing securing nuts & these could be easily damaged when using ring spanners &/or sockets.
It is essential to hold the spanner end squarely in place on the nut when loosening/tightening to avoid rounding off.
Here is a simple modification I made to both size spanners 27mm & 19mm by grinding the end that secures on the nuts flat.

View attachment 212924
Click to expand...
Luckily that arrangement is only on the very early cars. Most have a square socket plug (same as the fill plug) and the level tube is nylon and removed with a 10mm allen key.
 
Now I'm in this far on this tranny service where does one purchase a new/good used auto gear shift cable for one of these Scenic 2002's in OZ please.
Checked online looks blank! Also called French connection.

Engine end is currently held on with cable ties put on by some mechanic back down the line, so now's the time to implement a permanent practical fix.

Although I'd prefer to keep original, I may just have to fit a heim joint, if part/snot readily available.
 
thats quite a good mod to do on a multi point socket, for shallow nuts ,as well !as they sometimes have quite a taper , at the end ,
 
Too hard to source another cable & a lot of work replacing.
Decided to modify existing cable to suit what is needed. Will see if an Holden Astra/Falcon replacement bush will alleviate the need for cable ties & work with the current shift arm.
Then look @ through bolt or heim joint whatever is easiest if the bush scenario isn't a goer. Thanks JG
 
RINGER said:
Too hard to source another cable & a lot of work replacing.
Decided to modify existing cable to suit what is needed. Will see if an Holden Astra/Falcon replacement bush will alleviate the need for cable ties & work with the current shift arm.
Then look @ through bolt or heim joint whatever is easiest if the bush scenario isn't a goer. Thanks JG
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Photos before, during and after might be really interesting. Good luck with it.

The AL4 is a German Siemens design isn't it?
 
RINGER said:
Too hard to source another cable & a lot of work replacing.
Decided to modify existing cable to suit what is needed. Will see if an Holden Astra/Falcon replacement bush will alleviate the need for cable ties & work with the current shift arm.
Then look @ through bolt or heim joint whatever is easiest if the bush scenario isn't a goer. Thanks JG
Click to expand...
You’d probably be better finding any old reno or pug with this gearbox and having it shortened/modified as required.
 
Has anyone watching removed the auto shift cable previously or knows how to release the clamp [1st pictured] on the engine end please?
auto cable.jpg Auto clip.jpg Autoclip 1.jpg
 
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