S3 205 GTI engine conversion
- Thread starter Isis
- Start date
I should add that I am in Vic and have an experienced mechanic with an interest in and tolerance for the conversion. Apart from this I would benefit from all your experience, engine ideas and recommended parts.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2000
- Messages
- 11,441
I have a freshly built 2 litre Xu10 with 1.9 Mi16 head available. Piper Ultimate Road cams with solid lifters, cost a few dollars to do the head. Bottom end stock but with Total Seal rings. Includes Jenvey throttle bodies. I'm sticking with the 1.9 with GTi6 manifold for the 309, so the Xu10 is surplus to my requirements. It runs very well, just done running in km. Will need aftermarket ECU, I have been running it on Megasquirt 3. Will sell at less than half my cost.
I also have a BE3 gearbox with 205 GTi ratios and a 5.1 FD with Quaife but would want full replacement cost for this as I have a use for it in the Xsara VTS or the 309. Cost for this would have been $4000 or so.
I also have a BE3 gearbox with 205 GTi ratios and a 5.1 FD with Quaife but would want full replacement cost for this as I have a use for it in the Xsara VTS or the 309. Cost for this would have been $4000 or so.
Ash, plan B...convert this one back to a fast road, targa (you will probably need to sell the 205 tho)
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/at...2161461-405-race-car-sale-sandown-23.6.19.jpg
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/at...2161461-405-race-car-sale-sandown-23.6.19.jpg
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2000
- Messages
- 11,441
Enough. Seriously though I haven't had it tuned yet. With that spec it would have to be getting up to around 200 hp at the flywheel when tuned though.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2000
- Messages
- 11,441
Absolute travesty though to undo Jeff's great work on this.
If the budget is actually that healthy, could go EW10? That would be my modern choice.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2000
- Messages
- 11,441
I have an EW10, not 180 but very cheap.
If its mainly a road car and not being tracked and you want 16v then try and go for the ew 180 motor. They are lighter than all the xu10 engines and wont spin bearings like the early 1.9 motor.
Satchell makes a top engine mount for it and you just use a different fork for the lower mount. You will need to sort the brake booster and master cylinder out but that should work in your budget.
A set of bodies, cams and ecu will see well north of 200hp and a sound to match!
Suspension wise. If you go coilovers 185lbs springs and 21mm rear bars are similar to what an original GrpA car ran. I e had this setup on the road and when valved properly was still but not crashy.
Dare I Say just turbo the 8v and have similar power without the expense?
Satchell makes a top engine mount for it and you just use a different fork for the lower mount. You will need to sort the brake booster and master cylinder out but that should work in your budget.
A set of bodies, cams and ecu will see well north of 200hp and a sound to match!
Suspension wise. If you go coilovers 185lbs springs and 21mm rear bars are similar to what an original GrpA car ran. I e had this setup on the road and when valved properly was still but not crashy.
Dare I Say just turbo the 8v and have similar power without the expense?
If the $20k budget has to include mechanic's labour charge to do the conversion at $130+/hour, then $20k is actually not a big budget.
I am not clear on whether Ash would do things like wiring himself. If not, I would think that a custom ECU would be out of scope on this sort of budget because buying a decent ECU and ancillaries, paying a mechanic to install it neatly and wire it all up, and then pay someone to tune the car after (dyno, plus time actually driving to get things right) will chew up a lot of money. It took forever and multiple attempts to get my car just to idle well - and it still stalls when it is just off cold. To really achieve this budget I think you would need to go factory engine loom, and perhaps get the Pug1Off chipped ECU as a more economical way to get some stage 1 cams to work and still get a nice smooth idle etc.
Otherwise, engine wise I would have thought XU10J4RS with Peter T's stage 1 cams or CatCam 106's and not much else. I paid lots of money for forged internals, bigger injectors, all balanced, higher compression pistons etc etc and it all ended up making just a few HP more than PatPug's much more basic build with stage 1 cams and Haltec. So stick with the simple, known recipe. Or maybe Graham's engine sounds good if you can make that deal happen.
I recommend the lighter billet flywheel that Cam85 talked me into - mine is 3.8kg and the engine blips so beautifully - but that may not be in a $20k budget.
I thought that EW10 was still a bit untested in 205s. If Ash is paying a mechanic to do this he needs a conversion where every step is known so an engine can be slotted in with minimum time and experimentation required.
I think Huw's mod with the brake booster wedge to get the master cylinder to clear cams covers without having to lower the engine is good as it allows you to use standard engine mounts instead of having things rock hard - my car is smoother with less vibration and 'buzz' than other cars I've driven with cut down VT mounts or similar.
Huw spent lots of time getting my car to work with the 205 water/oil heat exchanger. If i were doing it again I wouldn't bother - just fit a normal oil cooler. It has taken a lot of work to get my car to stay cool. But then, I also have A/C, which I assume you will ditch.
For suspension, I love the results of my rear beam mods with, i think, 21mm torsion bars and 24mm ARB. I am running B6 shocks all round, but will let others opine on what is the best value for this application. 309 lower control arms give a bit of camber and don't add much to the budget. Mine seem to work okay with 205 driveshafts still fitted. I have slightly lower Eibach springs on the front and the back lowered slightly. It looks great but the front suspension does rather crash over bumps sometimes. I don't know whether to blame the springs or shocks for that. But it turns so well, I live with it.
BE3 gearbox, but you definitely need a lower final drive - a 16V needs to rev much higher than the standard 205 tractor engine. Graham's 5.1 is too low for the road. The wisdom on this forum seems to be that 4.06 is best compromise for a 16V road car, but they are not easy to find. I used a 3.9 from a s1/s2 205 as they are cheap and easy to find, and I have been happy with it. Obviously fit the Quaife that you have.
For brakes, go 266mm on the front and leave the back alone, and fit a 23.8mm master cylinder. And don't use EBC GreenStuff pads (Peter T warned me about that, but I didn't listen).
Fit a quick shift mod for the gearchange and replace the rods to get a nice tight change.
I will be amazed if that list leaves any change from $20k once fitted, but if there is anything extra left over for fripperies, I love my Momo Montecarlo wheel - it feels so much nicer than a worn standard steering wheel and looks great.
Last edited:
If you have the 8v motor in there its not that hard to make it fit. It will handle better, probably be faster and cost less to get similar performance. Im going to be turboing the 1.6Si motor in a couple of months so can post up the process and results. Im using a DP engineering manifold V3.
Fit a honda K24 and gearbox.