Yep, I can't be bothered resizing images to put it up on here so I just post it to the Aussie frogs Facebook group.
Last edited:
S16 Rebuild
- Thread starter Mingus
- Start date
She’s driving nicely... plenty of juice! But I’m sad to say, she didn’t even get to 500kms without its first oil leak... bloody hell!
Appears to be leaking from the cam position sensor, and it’s brand new. I’m guessing maybe a thicker o ring will do the trick or maybe even a slight smear of silastic.
Would excess blow by gasses cause this?
I have a ryco catch can that maybe is restricting air flow? Also, I made a makeshift sealed lid for the dipstick funnel because oil spray was shooting out as the plastic on the dipstick is long gone. I could just be reading into it too far and it could just be a cheap seal on the sensor.
Appears to be leaking from the cam position sensor, and it’s brand new. I’m guessing maybe a thicker o ring will do the trick or maybe even a slight smear of silastic.
Would excess blow by gasses cause this?
I have a ryco catch can that maybe is restricting air flow? Also, I made a makeshift sealed lid for the dipstick funnel because oil spray was shooting out as the plastic on the dipstick is long gone. I could just be reading into it too far and it could just be a cheap seal on the sensor.
Well. I haven't posted here in a long time. Mostly out of sheer shame, but also I haven't had the will to look at this thing.
But not even 500kms in, I had overheating... Did a bunch of tests, still the issue persisted... Finally bit the bullet and did the chemical test to see if combustion gasses in the coolant. Yep.
Then did leak-down. Yep, one chamber pushed coolant out of the rad. Confirmed. Ripped the head off, found this juicy little crack. I'm not sure if I reassembled the build with a defective head (it wasn't pressure tested under water which I regret), or it cracked shortly after, or if the higher compression stressed it.
I have another another head which I can use, but will need to get it serviced. I don't like the guys who I got work done with. They're a bit of a shambles - too much work and I'm sure they rush stuff.
Questions
1. Has this happened to anyone with this build?
2. Can anyone recommend a good machine shop that take their time, respect the customer - I'm in Wollongong but can travel to Syd, Canberra etc?
3. Also, what head gasket are you using - the Ajusa one doesn't seem to maximise the full width of the channels...(can sort of see from the gasket residue) I wonder if that leads less effective cooling.
But not even 500kms in, I had overheating... Did a bunch of tests, still the issue persisted... Finally bit the bullet and did the chemical test to see if combustion gasses in the coolant. Yep.
Then did leak-down. Yep, one chamber pushed coolant out of the rad. Confirmed. Ripped the head off, found this juicy little crack. I'm not sure if I reassembled the build with a defective head (it wasn't pressure tested under water which I regret), or it cracked shortly after, or if the higher compression stressed it.
I have another another head which I can use, but will need to get it serviced. I don't like the guys who I got work done with. They're a bit of a shambles - too much work and I'm sure they rush stuff.
Questions
1. Has this happened to anyone with this build?
2. Can anyone recommend a good machine shop that take their time, respect the customer - I'm in Wollongong but can travel to Syd, Canberra etc?
3. Also, what head gasket are you using - the Ajusa one doesn't seem to maximise the full width of the channels...(can sort of see from the gasket residue) I wonder if that leads less effective cooling.
I wouldn't feel too bad about it. There are too many things out of your control to worry about. That crack seems to me more like a manufacturing defect. These are old castings coming off an assembly line where people work against the clock, so many points of failure it's all about how lucky you are when you buy a car like these at 30-40 years old.
I am not sure the gasket can restrict flow enough to cause problems but if I had any concerns, I would try to enlarge the passages in the gasket to match the castings. Kinda like matching a manifold to a head. A few minutes with a sharp scalpel should do it. Just make sure you match the gasket against both block and head so you take into account any misalignment between these. Also check you're not cutting into the strips of silicone or whatever that sealing material is if your gasket has it. Shouldn't be the case, because if the sealant strip is so close to the passage or goes inside the passage, the gasket won't seal (or won't make use of the strip) anyway but just for peace of mind. If the sealant strip seems to fall inside the passage contour I would deem it useless and try to return it.
Not exactly the result you'd like to see after all the work you put in, but I guess these things happen. Keep going.
I am not sure the gasket can restrict flow enough to cause problems but if I had any concerns, I would try to enlarge the passages in the gasket to match the castings. Kinda like matching a manifold to a head. A few minutes with a sharp scalpel should do it. Just make sure you match the gasket against both block and head so you take into account any misalignment between these. Also check you're not cutting into the strips of silicone or whatever that sealing material is if your gasket has it. Shouldn't be the case, because if the sealant strip is so close to the passage or goes inside the passage, the gasket won't seal (or won't make use of the strip) anyway but just for peace of mind. If the sealant strip seems to fall inside the passage contour I would deem it useless and try to return it.
Not exactly the result you'd like to see after all the work you put in, but I guess these things happen. Keep going.
Thanks Mate. I definitely need my spirits lifted, and that did make me feel a better.
Yeah, the next gasket I'll tweak any holes to maximise the passage - I understand what you're saying. I also have a pretty good set of hole/shape punches that I could use to get a better cut - will test on the old gasket first.
Yeah, the next gasket I'll tweak any holes to maximise the passage - I understand what you're saying. I also have a pretty good set of hole/shape punches that I could use to get a better cut - will test on the old gasket first.
Nah, just lay the gasket in place, make sure you locate it correctly, press firmly down and stick the scalpel blade in the hole and follow the contour of the block/head below, trying to use a shearing motion from top down whilst biasing the blade cutting edge gently into the contour. This will act as a scissor action and cut the material between your blade and the metal contour you're trying to follow by shearing. If your blade is new, the cut will be smooth and clean. Holes should end up absolutely perfect with sharp, clean lines perfectly matched to the casting, perfectly positioned. Even if the hole is round and you have the correct punch, don't bother. The punch will squash the edge. Method above will absolutely not distort the cut edge in any way. Just make sure you check the gasket against both faces between which it will live (block and head) and adjust for misalignment of cast holes.
Last edited:
Ah yes, I get it. Makes sense - good method.
I've never had gasket mismatch issues. The only way forward is to get your head pressure tested and see where it's leaking, if at all. At the same time, skim the head again. If that "crack" is bad, it's easy to weld. I've never seen a casting defect there like that, so it may well be a crack.
Whilst you're waiting, clean up the block and look for coolant tracking.
Use ThreeBond 1211 around the coolant passages, both sides of the gasket, if nothing else shows up.
Did you torque the head down correctly?
Rams has so much work, they aren't taking any new customers. I can drop it in for you however.
Whilst you're waiting, clean up the block and look for coolant tracking.
Use ThreeBond 1211 around the coolant passages, both sides of the gasket, if nothing else shows up.
Did you torque the head down correctly?
Rams has so much work, they aren't taking any new customers. I can drop it in for you however.
Peter, you can see the crack in the first image above the exhaust valves.
The gasket looked perfect, no signs of of compromise between the passages or chambers.
I think this head's been skimmed twice. Moving onto a new head that hasn't been skimmed.
The head was torqued down to spec.
Peter, do you add washers or take any length off the head bolts if the block's been decked 1mm. I assume the the bolts wouldn't bottom out but didn't even occur to me.
How long do you think a head service and pressure test would take at RAMs at the moment? 1 month?
The gasket looked perfect, no signs of of compromise between the passages or chambers.
I think this head's been skimmed twice. Moving onto a new head that hasn't been skimmed.
The head was torqued down to spec.
Peter, do you add washers or take any length off the head bolts if the block's been decked 1mm. I assume the the bolts wouldn't bottom out but didn't even occur to me.
How long do you think a head service and pressure test would take at RAMs at the moment? 1 month?
I was suggesting thousands of an inch skim, not mm, just to freshen up the surface again. No need to modify spacers/bolts regardless, as there's plenty of depth in the block threads.
There is no guarantee of time. You just need to get in the queue. It's the same everywhere. People are spending money on cars instead of holidays.
There is no guarantee of time. You just need to get in the queue. It's the same everywhere. People are spending money on cars instead of holidays.
A few years back, I had an S16 in which the head which cracked in the exactly the same place as in your picture. Out of the blue (i.e., not related to any other event such as an engine rebuild). The engine immediately began to run hot with coolant leaking into number 2 (or 3) cylinder. I did not need to do a pressure test - it was obvious from the spark plug which cylinder had the problem which was confirmed when I removed the head. There was no evidence of head gasket breakdown. I took the head to a trusted engine rebuild shop who said the crack was not repairable (which I did not necessarily believe) but I was able to find a replacement head that had just been rebuilt and fitted that instead - problem solved. I also fitted a new clutch kit at the same time.
Regarding gaskets, I used whatever EAI supplied and I certainly did not "clean up" the gasket around the oil and water galleries - not necessary in my opinion and not the cause of your problem.
I would take Peter T up on his offer to use his engine rebuilder.
My S16 met its demise a few months later when the engine loom chaffed around the front of the block resulting in a fire in the engine bay. My fault I think as I was not careful enough in placing the wiring loom around the corner of the block near the starter motor. The engine and gearbox was not damaged and I am planning to fit this unit into an engineless S16 I purchased a few years back so another S16 will be saved.
Cheers
JohnT
I have a complete head available. Is currently on a motor that was removed from a running car. Can work something out, pm me.
Thanks John - good to know it just 'happens' sometimes.
I'll try source once from EAI, but I think a lot of that stock is NLA, getting a bit old now - especially the complete gasket kit for the intake etc. The bore is .5m wider from a previous rebore 86.5 from memory. I have a cometic gasket laying around, but it's a bit thick, and the edge of the fire-ring (in fact, there is no firering, just a straight sharp cut) looks unnervingly too close to the edge of the chamber, and since the piston TDC is flush with the deck, I fear it could strike (I've read the edge of those steel gaskets get crazy hot and expand slightly). The placement of the gasket also has a tiny bit of tolerance to move just slighting when installing it.
I'll PM Peter, and might look at get these cams reground (stage1 inlet, etc as per this type of build) - they look in better nick than my previous ones I got done, and the cam bearing caps look much better too, so would like to use all the same pieces from the head all matched up.
Sad to hear about the fire. I know the edge you're talking about and it's pretty sharp. I've got pretty hardcore protecting my loom knowing it's pretty fragile due to age - every artery is cloth wrapped and has corrugated plastic around it.
I have a spare S16 (now without a head) and lots of bits if you ever are stuck.
So, it seems the rocker cover gasket is leaking at the back (due to the angle of the engine there would always be oil sitting there). It was a new gasket and I did smear some ultra black permanent silicone on it, but still seemed to get behind the rubber gasket….Anyone got any recommendations on sealing it for good?? The rocker cover always seems to leak and make a mess of clean bay and drips in the driveway.
Not sure what "ultra black permanent silicone" is. My technique is to coat the bottom corners of the gasket and cam cover with 1211. Thus the entire corner is encapsulated with 1211, if that makes sense? Aftermarket cam cover gaskets are also thinner than oem, which antagonises the issue. If the shoulders of the cam cover bolts are bottoming out before the gasket clamps, there's little you can do about it. Talk to me offline if that's the case.
Sorry, it autocorrected Permatex to "permanent". I've got some threebond 1211, and yes it makes sense. I'll check the depth of the various gaskets I have for it and use the thickest one (provided they're still supple). I don't think they're bottoming out.
AC Delete in an S16 xu10j4? Anyone done it?
I've seen a post by Easty saying he did it on an S16.... and would love some info about how he went about it.
From memory, I think Peter T did a cut into the alternator bracket, but can't find the post about it??
There is a post called AC delete but it looks to have posts missing...
I've seen a post by Easty saying he did it on an S16.... and would love some info about how he went about it.
From memory, I think Peter T did a cut into the alternator bracket, but can't find the post about it??
There is a post called AC delete but it looks to have posts missing...