RHR 407 engine power loss.

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kelpiebat

Active member
Fellow Frogger
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Location
Coffs Harbour, NSW Australia
Hi to all. Am contemplating the purchase of a 240K, 06/'06 build 407 sedan with RHR and 6 speed Auto. Presently it starts well then plays up badly with strong jerking as it struggles to warm up and attain 3,000 revs as it produces a considerable amount of smoke. Once warm the smoke blowing ceases while the power remains minimal, in that 3,000 is the max even when held in 3rd. My common variety Oxgord MS300 OBD2 Code Reader shows a P0299 (Turbo underboost) and 3 pending faults being P0299 & P0471 (Exhaust pressure sensor CKT range/performance & P0095 (IAT Sensor 2 circuit). Considerable soot is visible on the rear boot panel.

After the test drive and seeing the Turbo underboost code the immediate problem analysis was the not unusual split/leaking turbo to manifold air piping. However, the owner recalls the 1st sign as being a sudden power loss on a 110kph highway. After a reasonable stop he had to proceed and the car did so as normal. Then about 6 weeks later the loss returned and has remained. The car was bought new by in-laws and Dealer serviced in Newcastle till coming to Coffs 18 months or so ago. The vacuum tubing to the white 'Y' piece looks good. The injection system is Siemens according to Service Box.

In recognition of the intermittent style of the fault a leaking moulded turbo air pipe seems unlikely and an electrical or vacuum fault far more likely. Thanks for any thoughts or experience.
 
A failed dpf pressure sensor will cause that or the pipes going down to it inside the sheathing


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Thanks dmc for that clue. Have read a thread where the disconnection of the sensor under the fuel manifold limited the 2.0 RHR to 3,000 rpm. Any experience with faulty sensor or dirty terminal ?
 
Drove the car again the other day after swapping the Temp and Pressure sensors with known good ones. A UK thread held an input of the P0299 fault being cured by replacing the Temp sensor, both were badly sooted and initially it seemed to be better. Hoping that 4,000 rpm in 3rd for a few Ks might be a cure it wasn't long before it faltered, showed a picture of the DPF and went into limp mode. The workshop which told me of the car provided the first diagnosis reading of; Engine Codes P1435, U1118, P1693, U2001. P1447, P0299, P1631, P3008, P0471, P0490 and Auto Codes P0734, P0480, U1213, P0735. After clearing them P0299 and P0471 returned. The car's history is good so I'm keen but have to be wary. Faith in dmcc has led to finding where the DPF sensor lives and a spare will be swapped into it and I reckon it'll be good. However, there is concern that the DPF will be in need of more than just a 50 K cleaning run. Any thoughts on the viability now that all the codes are on the table. Thanks for your time 'n safe driving.
 
Some odd faults in there for a diesel like the p3008


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Hi dmcc thanks for mentioning that. Have googled the P3008 and am a bit confused. I had only considered the 2 codes which returned. If it helps I believe that the 10 engine codes were read on a snap on diagnostic tool and are in chronological order from oldest to newest. Will swap the DPF sensor, and if it cures the power loss it would appear that the P1631, P3008, P0471 and P0490 were a result of the sensor's failure and all will be well. On google there was reference to P3008 and EGR issues such as stuck open. Thanks
 
kelpiebat said:
Hi to all. Am contemplating the purchase of a 240K, 06/'06 build 407 sedan with RHR and 6 speed Auto. Presently it starts well then plays up badly with strong jerking as it struggles to warm up and attain 3,000 revs as it produces a considerable amount of smoke. Once warm the smoke blowing ceases while the power remains minimal, in that 3,000 is the max even when held in 3rd. My common variety Oxgord MS300 OBD2 Code Reader shows a P0299 (Turbo underboost) and 3 pending faults being P0299 & P0471 (Exhaust pressure sensor CKT range/performance & P0095 (IAT Sensor 2 circuit). Considerable soot is visible on the rear boot panel.

After the test drive and seeing the Turbo underboost code the immediate problem analysis was the not unusual split/leaking turbo to manifold air piping. However, the owner recalls the 1st sign as being a sudden power loss on a 110kph highway. After a reasonable stop he had to proceed and the car did so as normal. Then about 6 weeks later the loss returned and has remained. The car was bought new by in-laws and Dealer serviced in Newcastle till coming to Coffs 18 months or so ago. The vacuum tubing to the white 'Y' piece looks good. The injection system is Siemens according to Service Box.

In recognition of the intermittent style of the fault a leaking moulded turbo air pipe seems unlikely and an electrical or vacuum fault far more likely. Thanks for any thoughts or experience.
Click to expand...

Is the 407 2.0lt or 2.7lt
 
Yes 505v6, Dijon16 is correct that RHR is the 2,0 litre common rail diesel. Took a good used DPF pressure sensor to replace the old one. Before starting the oxgord scanner was used to clear the P0299 and P1447 codes. The replacement sensor improved the car a lot over a 10-15 minute drive. Figuring on the likelihood that a longer run at 3,500rpm could be helpful I read and cleared the 3 pending codes on the screen after the first run - they were P0299P, P1447P and P0734P. Second run at 3,500 - 4,000 was 36-40 ks at 110kph on a cool 17 degree day. A bit of jerking was evident at around 2,000 rpm and gone by 2,500. On the highway the water temp did not reach 80 degrees, as the auto temp got to 115 degrees. Whilst discussing with the owner driver the low highway water temp he stated that usually it ran at about 75, but when in traffic it would heat up and at about 85 the car would start to play up. By that remark I thought he was talking about the jerking and perhaps roughness in the auto. During the 2nd run the auto was nowhere near as good as the Aisin in the wife's 2010 RHR 308. Whilst driving the slight descent to his garage area it was noticed that in 1st gear on the tip-tronic option the car actually slowed to a stop and needed power or going into 2nd to continue the roll. It felt as if there was a slightly on parking brake activated and the water temp was reading 90 or very close to. No sign of a fresh coating of soot so I reckon dmcc is still on his game. After 15 mins of cooling the scanner showed 2 pendings; a P3008P and P0299P.
 
My darts fly straight and true might look at restricting the egr to lessen that bucking


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Thanks dmcc. EGR restriction is planned for the RHR I already own and would be added to this car if I get confident enough to buy it. What about the anomaly with the auto box restricting downhill rolling in tip-tronic but not in drive mode? Most of its servicing was by the European Car Centre in Newcastle. It is highly likely that oil changing in the auto box has not taken place. The service books show consistent servicing but give no details, except kms, whatsoever.
 
So not us at pacific , the four speed feels awful once you are used to am6 but I think that’s normal that car your talking about isn’t the red or white one is it ?
I would rather my 13yr old service my car

Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Sorry dmcc I knew it wasn't your place even though I didn't know the Pacific name. The car is a white 2006 RHR 6sp auto with some service history at Regal Motors. The 1st owners bought a new, I think, 5008 from the same place where the 407 came from. Forgot to mention that my 407 manual quickly warmed to 90 on its water temp gauge within a few k's on the same highway where I gave the auto the 3,500 + rpm run at 75 degrees. Would it be likely that if the thermostat is troubled then the under temp coolant temp sensor is giving the ECU a signal that it does not recognize as normal and is therefore controlling the engine in such a way that it is trying to bring the coolant temp up to normal and in the process the engine is a bit 'off-song.'
 
So the regal service would have been perfect [emoji108]


Garage C5 X7 3008 XTE
Gone but not forgotten 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
Fix it right the first time
 
Without trying to contact the 1st owners I can't answer that. Presently I'm looking to buy, but am being cautious cause I'm allergic to being burnt, and wifely upsets hurt my ears.
 
Now that the power loss is pretty well sorted, my attention is on the P3008 pending code. Google research indicates that it is related to inlet air flow and that the MAF can be the cause. A good spare is ready and waiting for testing. Re the cool coolant temperature indications on the gauge it has been learnt that the thermostats have failed which, apparently, results in having to replace the whole housing. Some where I saw reference to Peugeot having replaced the wax pellet type thermostat with an electronic operation unit ? When it comes to the 'effects of engine coolant temperature on performance' a very comprehensive study into the effects of temperature on biofuel blends leaves the reader in no doubt that cooler coolant is detrimental to power. So, I'm factoring in a thermostat housing change to bring the engine up to scratch. Can't find anything on the AM6B auto transmission to explain the mild application of a braking effect only when 1st is engaged in the tip-tronic mode. Maybe the full 12 litre oil renewing may be all that is needed. Is it possible to renew the filter in the auto whilst still in the 407 HDi 2,0 ltr ? Any ideas ?
 
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