Replace Air Flap Plastic Gears with Brass Gears Peugeots 405 - 406 - 605 - 106

Thanks mandc. It is unrelated to Windows or IE or macbook. The curl demonstration above is system neutral. Curl is not a browser.

The important info is Telstra, as it tells us that many Australian IP addresses have been blacklisted by the French server. It is not restricted to just my ISP either. The Opera turbo server (in USA if memory is correct) also received a good reply.
 
Bumping a very old thread out of frustration. :mad: Have searched various threads and forums, but here I am...

So the problem is the classical loud clicking / clacking behind glovebox - i.e. fresh / recirc air flap. Noise is about a year old - it lasted ~17 years - I guess I was lucky, hence my late entry here... Finally looked at it today. 406 renewal project #4!

I've read about the gears a bit but not sure if the issue is within the actuator (small motorised gearbox) or external gears - half arc on the actuator pinion and full gear on the flap shaft.
air flap drive.JPG

I watched it operate from the filter / engine bay side (kid pushing recirc/fresh button on my demand!).
It moved half way, stopped for a few secs, then finished opening (or closing). So it was possibly working OK for once if that's how it should open / close. Normally it's is noisy but it was quiet today...
Sometimes it seems to operate by itself, straight after starting (I know 'cause I hear the clacking). I'm not sure if the climate control does something with recirc/fresh according to inside / outside temps.

I assume the click-clacking is from jumping gears. I thought fuses were supposed to stop over-load and mech damage:confused: It's never blown a fuse.
The recirc/fresh air flap moves freely. The flap shaft gear feels OK when rotating by hand, but remains my suspect part.

When I saw the flap shaft gear, I thought it had broken teeth. But it looks like there's meant to be flat spots. And the G & D lobes on the pinion gear turn the gear also. I guess this is how it somehow opens/closes in two movements. The actuator spins ~ 1.75 complete turns from the recirc button control. The flap gear moves ~1/4 turn. It does my head in. And I'm a mech engineer.
air flap drive gears.JPGair flap drive pinion half gear.JPG

So I then thought the actuator might be buggered despite turning OK and appearing to have good torque (and reading many threads).
Opening it up, I couldn't fault it. So greased it and closed.
air flap drive actuator.JPG

Of course, on reinstallation and aligning 'D''s properly (another thread..), it immediately click/clacked when testing. Grrrr.
So I have no idea what's wrong.

Wondering if the groove in the back of the flap shaft arm has worn and catching a little on the driving pin on the full gear.

Anyone got a number for a good psychologist?o_O Or a link to a good precise thread?
 
Bumping a very old thread out of frustration. :mad: Have searched various threads and forums, but here I am...

So the problem is the classical loud clicking / clacking behind glovebox - i.e. fresh / recirc air flap. Noise is about a year old - it lasted ~17 years - I guess I was lucky, hence my late entry here... Finally looked at it today. 406 renewal project #4!

I've read about the gears a bit but not sure if the issue is within the actuator (small motorised gearbox) or external gears - half arc on the actuator pinion and full gear on the flap shaft.
View attachment 129461

I watched it operate from the filter / engine bay side (kid pushing recirc/fresh button on my demand!).
It moved half way, stopped for a few secs, then finished opening (or closing). So it was possibly working OK for once if that's how it should open / close. Normally it's is noisy but it was quiet today...
Sometimes it seems to operate by itself, straight after starting (I know 'cause I hear the clacking). I'm not sure if the climate control does something with recirc/fresh according to inside / outside temps.

I assume the click-clacking is from jumping gears. I thought fuses were supposed to stop over-load and mech damage:confused: It's never blown a fuse.
The recirc/fresh air flap moves freely. The flap shaft gear feels OK when rotating by hand, but remains my suspect part.

When I saw the flap shaft gear, I thought it had broken teeth. But it looks like there's meant to be flat spots. And the G & D lobes on the pinion gear turn the gear also. I guess this is how it somehow opens/closes in two movements. The actuator spins ~ 1.75 complete turns from the recirc button control. The flap gear moves ~1/4 turn. It does my head in. And I'm a mech engineer.
View attachment 129462View attachment 129463

So I then thought the actuator might be buggered despite turning OK and appearing to have good torque (and reading many threads).
Opening it up, I couldn't fault it. So greased it and closed.
View attachment 129464

Of course, on reinstallation and aligning 'D''s properly (another thread..), it immediately click/clacked when testing. Grrrr.
So I have no idea what's wrong.

Wondering if the groove in the back of the flap shaft arm has worn and catching a little on the driving pin on the full gear.

Anyone got a number for a good psychologist?o_O Or a link to a good precise thread?
When I began reading your post, I thought that you were going to have the problem solved. I was really looking forward to getting my 406’s chattering stopped. Although, I must admit, it does provide me with some mild entertainment when new passengers get into the car.

I seem to remember being told that it was the gears slipping. But I don’t know how slipping gears would make that noise.

Mine is almost always noisy on startup, but it seems that it’s guaranteed to be noisy on a very hot day or a very cold day. The weather in my part of Australia tends to be at the extreme ends of hot and cold. Well, cold for not living up in the clouds. Not a lot of mild weather days.

Does it have something to do with the climate control system trying to get the balance of the air conditioning right?

Cheers,
Andrew
 
Bumping a very old thread out of frustration. :mad: Have searched various threads and forums, but here I am...

So the problem is the classical loud clicking / clacking behind glovebox - i.e. fresh / recirc air flap. Noise is about a year old - it lasted ~17 years - I guess I was lucky, hence my late entry here... Finally looked at it today. 406 renewal project #4!

I've read about the gears a bit but not sure if the issue is within the actuator (small motorised gearbox) or external gears - half arc on the actuator pinion and full gear on the flap shaft.
View attachment 129461

I watched it operate from the filter / engine bay side (kid pushing recirc/fresh button on my demand!).
It moved half way, stopped for a few secs, then finished opening (or closing). So it was possibly working OK for once if that's how it should open / close. Normally it's is noisy but it was quiet today...
Sometimes it seems to operate by itself, straight after starting (I know 'cause I hear the clacking). I'm not sure if the climate control does something with recirc/fresh according to inside / outside temps.

I assume the click-clacking is from jumping gears. I thought fuses were supposed to stop over-load and mech damage:confused: It's never blown a fuse.
The recirc/fresh air flap moves freely. The flap shaft gear feels OK when rotating by hand, but remains my suspect part.

When I saw the flap shaft gear, I thought it had broken teeth. But it looks like there's meant to be flat spots. And the G & D lobes on the pinion gear turn the gear also. I guess this is how it somehow opens/closes in two movements. The actuator spins ~ 1.75 complete turns from the recirc button control. The flap gear moves ~1/4 turn. It does my head in. And I'm a mech engineer.
View attachment 129462View attachment 129463

So I then thought the actuator might be buggered despite turning OK and appearing to have good torque (and reading many threads).
Opening it up, I couldn't fault it. So greased it and closed.
View attachment 129464

Of course, on reinstallation and aligning 'D''s properly (another thread..), it immediately click/clacked when testing. Grrrr.
So I have no idea what's wrong.

Wondering if the groove in the back of the flap shaft arm has worn and catching a little on the driving pin on the full gear.

Anyone got a number for a good psychologist?o_O Or a link to a good precise thread?
Hi New2Pugs,

I had the same issue a few years back on my 405, and fitted a set of Xi's cogs which have work perfectly ever since. In my case, it was pretty similar - cogs look ok except a few missing teeth on the large "front" cog - not enough to stop it working though.

One thing that might be worth looking at more carefully is the wear on the nylon cog that meshes with the steel worm gear. I had a similar issue with a binding worm gear on a lamborghini speedo gearbox - it looked ok at first glance, but it bound up horribly when it was under any load, or was run backwards. On closer inspection, the gears had worn about 50% - but were all still in place.

Or for your sanity, perhaps take the risk on some brass gears and see what happens - as engineers we can tend to over think (I'm an electrical).

Cheers,
Andrew
 
One thing that might be worth looking at more carefully is the wear on the nylon cog that meshes with the steel worm gear. I had a similar issue with a binding worm gear on a lamborghini speedo gearbox - it looked ok at first glance, but it bound up horribly when it was under any load, or was run backwards. On closer inspection, the gears had worn about 50% - but were all still in place.
Thanks Andrew(s).
Do you mean this cog? (yellow highlight)
air flap drive actuator cog.JPG
If so, I'll pull it out and have a look. Maybe it's worn half way across the face - looks OK on the side. It could be the slipping / clacking gear - I can't see any other wear anywhere.


Andrew #2 (505604) - yes, there may be a temp factor to this. My clacking noise is intermittent but I haven't noted the conditions.
I'm beginning to think the flap gear is the issue - the groove in the flap's arm makes the gear's pin go over-centre at each end of travel to 'lock in' position. If there's the smallest change on where the flap beds (maybe even temp related), it may increase the torque to close/open and lock-in.

Sometimes the noise occurs on startup, without pressing the recirc/fresh button. Possibly the climate control compares in/outside temp and moves the flap e.g. mild day but hot inside, if car's sitting in the sun.

'Having a feel' last night (!) - it was sticky when closed inside i.e. fresh air, compared to the other position.
Contemplating removing the fan and flap assembly when I have time.
Will let you know the result.
Fan and air flap assembly.JPG

Actually, I have another problem that could be related - my aircon was also working intermittently. It seems to be a control issue as the clutch kicks in and turns the compressor. But sometimes I get no cooling.
So it's either the aircon pressure switch OR (unlikely) related to the above problem and the control unit has an error, preventing liquid flow to the evaporator.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Andrew(s).
Do you mean this cog? (yellow highlight)
View attachment 129495
If so, I'll pull it out and have a look. Maybe it's worn half way across the face - looks OK on the side. It could be the slipping / clacking gear - I can't see any other wear anywhere.


Andrew #2 (505604) - yes, there may be a temp factor to this. My clacking noise is intermittent but I haven't noted the conditions.
I'm beginning to think the flap gear is the issue - the groove in the flap's arm makes the gear's pin go over-centre at each end to travel to 'lock in' position. If there's the smallest change on where the flap beds, it may increase the torque to close/open and lock-in.

'Having a feel' last night (!) - it was sticky when closed inside i.e. fresh air, compared to the other position.
Contemplating removing the fan and flap assembly when I have time.
Will let you know the result.
View attachment 129496
Yep, that's the one. Another thought - is is possible to gently load the the output of the servo and see if it clicks or just stalls? (obviously being very careful not to burn, strip or squash anything)
 
I drove the 406 this morning when the weather was cool. I think that the temperature was indicating 11°C on the display. There was no clacking when I started the engine nor when I began driving. Don’t ask me why I had to separate those two events.

After some 30 minutes of driving, and approximately 40 kilometresthe outside temperature had probably increased but I couldn’t read the display. I was driving into the sun and the display is not the brightest thing in my 406. But the clacking started.

It’s not often that the clacking happens midway through a drive.

Cheers,
Andrew

* The air conditioning on the 406 is currently not working due to the compressor leaking. I’m going to post a ‘want to buy’ ad, but whilst I have some people’s attention, I’ll also make my request here.
My car is the first of the D9 series, a 1999 model HDi.
If you have or know of a good compressor to suit the car, please let me know.
Actually, I thought that compressors were repaired but this doesn’t seem to be the case any longer.
 
there was a post on here from way back when i had the M16 ,probably before the crash, about using gears from remote control cars it was also mentioned that these flap motor units are used in a few other brands ,range rover seems to come to mind ,im wondering if the meshing of the gears may be compromised by wear in the pivot shafts allowing the gears to slip under load ,once the teeth have slipped the alignment of the flap and gears and motor is going to be out of sync ,,when wound back the other way the motor is going to be pushing against the flap that is already closed ,i seem to remember that the gears have to be aligned when the motor is in a certain position for it to work properly ,like trying to align the motor and drive on a sun roof ,interesting
 
Pugwash is on the money about remote control cars,the early Range Rover had the same motor/cogs,
think it was a Valeo brand as well.
 
I drove the 406 this morning when the weather was cool. I think that the temperature was indicating 11°C on the display. There was no clacking when I started the engine nor when I began driving. Don’t ask me why I had to separate those two events.

After some 30 minutes of driving, and approximately 40 kilometresthe outside temperature had probably increased but I couldn’t read the display. I was driving into the sun and the display is not the brightest thing in my 406. But the clacking started.

It’s not often that the clacking happens midway through a drive.

Cheers,
Andrew

* The air conditioning on the 406 is currently not working due to the compressor leaking. I’m going to post a ‘want to buy’ ad, but whilst I have some people’s attention, I’ll also make my request here.
My car is the first of the D9 series, a 1999 model HDi.
If you have or know of a good compressor to suit the car, please let me know.
Actually, I thought that compressors were repaired but this doesn’t seem to be the case any longer.
There's a number of a/c compressors listed here;
https://peugeotparts.com.au/4-series-parts/
 
there was a post on here from way back when i had the M16 ,probably before the crash, about using gears from remote control cars it was also mentioned that these flap motor units are used in a few other brands ,range rover seems to come to mind ,im wondering if the meshing of the gears may be compromised by wear in the pivot shafts allowing the gears to slip under load ,once the teeth have slipped the alignment of the flap and gears and motor is going to be out of sync ,,when wound back the other way the motor is going to be pushing against the flap that is already closed ,i seem to remember that the gears have to be aligned when the motor is in a certain position for it to work properly ,like trying to align the motor and drive on a sun roof ,interesting
Thanks.
Possibly finding the same the gears from an R/C car is a needle in a hay stack unless there's a specific part number?
Is there any advantage of using a different brand such as Range rover or is it exactly the same (OEM) and there's just more of them available?
WRT syncing, I had aligned the 'D' as in my earlier post. I can only assume this is correct no matter what position the switch is in i.e. open or closed.
 
Thanks.
Possibly finding the same the gears from an R/C car is a needle in a hay stack unless there's a specific part number?
Is there any advantage of using a different brand such as Range rover or is it exactly the same (OEM) and there's just more of them available?
WRT syncing, I had aligned the 'D' as in my earlier post. I can only assume this is correct no matter what position the switch is in i.e. open or closed.
I have a 2001 P38a Range Rover (second gen, 1995-2001) that has Valeo blend motors (well, an aftermarket version of the oe Valeo) and apparently the motors are the same five-wire types as 405, poss 406 and others, although wiring loom/connectors are probably different. I always thought the rumour was an indentical (Valeo) PSA blend motor had brass cogs. Seemingly not.

To me, the cog arrangement is different too, compared with the pic above (see the RR motor below).

These RR motors have all sorts of problems and no, they are not available with brass gears in the RR's case. Two problems in the RR: sticking blend doors (either dried grease on blend door pivots or heaterbox slightly warped) lead to stripped blend motor gears. The other problem is with the potentiometer. I just replaced one motor as it had stripped gears. Replaced gears out of a new spare motor, but still had problems (the motor would move freely when removed but stall when bolted onto the heatbox). I think it was the pot, as when I just replaced the dodgy motor and gears with the new one, problem solved. For now.
There was some talk on a RR FB page about a chap who had contacted Valeo about this problem, who said he should try a blend motor intended for some Mercedes. It was all so vague and the bloke didn't respond to questions seeking clarification. Probably another blind alley.
 

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There's a number of a/c compressors listed here;
https://peugeotparts.com.au/4-series-parts/
Thanks for the information.

Unfortunately, I have had a lot of problems with that wrecker. He has sent me the wrong alternator for my 406 - January, 2020 - and then in October, he sent me a broken and incorrect tail light for my 307.

I have been sending emails to him as well as making phone calls requesting that he organise collection of the incorrect and broken parts, as well as a full refund. I have had no response from him.

I have had one positive experience with him. Now I have two negative experiences to give me a completely different view of the way that he does business.

Cheers,
Andrew
 
I have a 2001 P38a Range Rover (second gen, 1995-2001) that has Valeo blend motors (well, an aftermarket version of the oe Valeo) and apparently the motors are the same five-wire types as 405, poss 406 and others, although wiring loom/connectors are probably different. I always thought the rumour was an indentical (Valeo) PSA blend motor had brass cogs. Seemingly not.

To me, the cog arrangement is different too, compared with the pic above (see the RR motor below).

These RR motors have all sorts of problems and no, they are not available with brass gears in the RR's case. Two problems in the RR: sticking blend doors (either dried grease on blend door pivots or heaterbox slightly warped) lead to stripped blend motor gears. The other problem is with the potentiometer. I just replaced one motor as it had stripped gears. Replaced gears out of a new spare motor, but still had problems (the motor would move freely when removed but stall when bolted onto the heatbox). I think it was the pot, as when I just replaced the dodgy motor and gears with the new one, problem solved. For now.
There was some talk on a RR FB page about a chap who had contacted Valeo about this problem, who said he should try a blend motor intended for some Mercedes. It was all so vague and the bloke didn't respond to questions seeking clarification. Probably another blind alley.
Cheers.
Yes, PSA is all nylon gears.
Your photo may be the same actuator as used on earlier pugs - I recall seeing photos from 406's (in other threads) that didn't look like mine. They had more gears and the angled motor, like yours.
Agree that the root cause is probably due to 'resistance' in whatever it is driving i.e. recirc / blend flaps. Mine seems fine but jumps cogs when reinstalled.
 
If anyone's searching for the brass gears mentioned at the start of this post, they are still available from the seller "XI" at his latest website:


I bought these gears years ago in anticipation of my plastic ones failing but the originals have only just failed now. In the meantime I'd lost the instruction sheet for how to fit the new gears and wasn't looking forward to guessing my way through the process. A few search attempts with google found the original website thankfully.
 
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