Rehash something many people want to have a go

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Palo Verde

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*but did not have the opportunity.

so I saw this written in a qualified and well reputed Peugeot service centre

'While you might be tempted to think that log book maintenance is a service only performed by dealerships, the law has a different stance on things. According to Australian legislation, any motor mechanic can complete the servicing without invalidating the warranty, provided they are licensed. This protected service includes both regular maintenance as well as repairs.'

Now the other side of the coin from Peugeot response after you have followed the law stated above by the independent service place and you have diligently serviced repaired your car but needed to pursue a warranty matter or even to investigate why a part failed so soon (try 35 k) - a non moving part!

Thank you for your email.

While we are glad to hear that your vehicle was repaired, we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.


Now do you see the law means nothing? At the end of the day the manufacturers run their own little side show away from legislation. They insist that you MUST bring your car to a dealer - otherwise no go for anything, let alone warranty.

You may explain the law till the cows come home but Peugeot will close the case and it is legal. They are well within their rights to insist you must first go to an authorised Peugeot dealership. So this toothless legislation about who you can go to so long as they are licensed is - rubbish, hogwash, mud, maggot.

This legislation has no teeth, no policing, no oversight no compliance and it is as good as not having this piece of legislation.

The context briefly was that I have been bringing my pug faithfully to a qualified full fledged European car specialist that not only does Peugeot but Rovers Merc etc. The irony is: up till 2018, this place I go to was a recommended Peugeot service centre on Peugeot's own website. After a possibly bitter commercial gripe, the service centre decided to go it alone. And then just like that, overnight, Peugeot now says,'we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.'

The email response from Peugeot was arrogant and patronising, first of all, how could you leave your car not repaired by the side of the road? And according to the law, the customer had exercised their right under the law to choose a non dealer to fix the problem (mind you not some cheap gas station but a 4 figure amount bill at a previously Peugeot recommended service centre.) suddenly just by following the law to exercise your right to choose, you are being stamped with the scarlet letter - who told you to go to a non Peugeot authorised dealership? Who told you to do that? Case close we at Peugeot will not even continue this. Good bye= Merci! AuVoir!

Whatis the world coming to?
whatever happened to the law that says 'any motor mechanic can complete the servicing without invalidating the warranty, provided they are licensed. This protected service includes both regular maintenance as well as repairs'

what good is this piece of legislation when at the end of the day you need to go back to the gatekeepers - an authorized Peugeot Dealership?? ( and it's not even free so double pay , after you paid to fix your car, you pay again for the dealers to diagnose something you already fix because the law means nothing to Peugeot.)

Someone must complain about this to the Government or your local member. Before you dismiss it, it could happen to you - when you least expect. There needs to be an independent umpire to see things objectively and have nothing to gain from either side.

The matter is over and I am over it but as a matter of principal - how is it that organisations can disobey the law and go unpunished? Meanwhile the helpless customer is the one that suffers even this so called piece of legislation that was supposed to protect the customer cannot even protect my dog's foot.

The next time you come up with any legislation - make sure there is a way to police it and make sure there are punishment. No punishment no policing , it's no wonder no car manufacturers cares about this law. It really may as well not exists.

Isn't it tiresome that evey instance you have an issue with your peugeot the first thing you read from them is 'we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.'

Even that statement may be breaching the law as mentioned above. Because who says you have to go to an authorized Peugeot Dealership?
certainly not the law!
 
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Jesus Christ mate you can’t go get something fixed somewhere else then send a bill to peugeot and expect them to pay it. It has nothing to do with servicing. You are cherry picking what you want to see out off the legislation.
 
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How on earth do you respond when the first thing you get before you even see the sun rise, 'we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.' at your cost by the way, not at Peugeot's cost

so really they are asking you to pay the dealer for something that would satisfy them, not you - you are the least important breathing thing here.

And nowhere did I say I want to, was going to , has contemplated to, is in the process to:

send a bill to Peugeot. Next time read carefully before jumping the gun all i wanted to was something in writing why a non moving part failed at 37k but it was met with 'we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.' not Please send this back to us and we will investigate this matter but hey please throw some money to the dealers for us.
Basically even if you ask them if orange goes well with blue, it will be met with 'we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.'

This template is a armour shield for them. It works in any occasion, how clever I wonder who started this template. The side benefits are it brings in unfathomable business to the dealers. it also is the best legally acceptable comeback to anything you raise about legislation.
If you follow their instructions you are then as dumb as sardines that fell out of the can.
 
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It's really not that confusing.
-You have the legally protected right to use a non-dealer for servicing, as long as they are a licensed mechanic.
-Warranty work is done by dealers only. That includes them diagnosing the fault. You can't expect them to do warranty work based on diagnosis by a mechanic who they don't employ.
This is all well and good, but it doesn't allow for any shades of grey.
If you have built up a relationship with a dealer, by being a loyal customer, they are more likely to go in to bat for you, to argue your case when the importer is being difficult and trying to deny an expensive warranty claim.
The dealer and importer have no control over work done by your independent mechanic, what if your chosen licensed mechanic is unfamiliar with your funny French car, isn't up on the latest service bulletins, or is just incompetent?

Theoretic scenario: What if your mechanic did something wrong, like use the wrong grade of oil or used cheap, poor quality oil filters, and this caused the problem you are now seeking warranty for? your chosen mechanic denies he has done anything wrong and says you should claim under warranty, dealer says fault was caused by bad servicing and you aren't covered. you end up the meat in the sandwich, stuck with an expensive repair.

This is why many people choose to stick with dealer servicing at least for the duration of the warranty. I know that legally I can use an independent and theoretically it won't affect warranty, but the more parties there are in an argument, the more likely it is that everyone points the finger at each other and I end up stuck.

I no longer own a French car, even though I love them. I drive a 2017 VW Golf wagon. It has the 7 speed DSG transmission, they are known to give trouble at times and are seriously expensive to repair. I have chosen to stick with dealer servicing after warranty expired last year. If my transmission were to fail the repairs are extremely expensive, I would want the dealer pushing the importer for a "goodwill" repair, and the goodwill isn't there if I am using an independent for servicing. At some point in the future (maybe a year or two) I reckon there woud be no chance of a goodwill repair due to the age of the car, at that point I have an independent European car specialist I will go to. I have a great deal of faith in the independent, I really like the guy and would like to support him, my partner's car goes there already. But he would have no standing to argue with the importer if my car has some expensive fault, so I go to dealer at present. Maybe I am in a lucky position, I think both my dealer and this independent are good options. But I would never get a car serviced by an independent, then expect a dealer to do warranty work based on diagnosis by the independent ... completely unrealistic.
 
My point being despite what the legislation say the real consumer protection is that you stick with a dealer from start to finish to maintain that goodwill really it is about a business relationship and nowhere is the law relevant. Talk about consumer protection my foot.

* if you are happy with the dealer charging you an arm and leg for any little trivial things that is., over the life of the car if everything was done at the dealer you would have built yourself a village of corpses

Sounds to me members here are very pro dealers and love throwing money at them.
 
You are assuming that dealers overcharge and independents don't.
That is a bold assumption.
I have found both to be very reasonable at times, though I also have had times when I have run away from a dealer due to an excessive quote, and got the job done much cheaper elsewhere. I have also had my fingers burnt from independents who have charged a fortune for a rotten job, and had to get it done again elsewhere.
I am a total tight arse and I do not "love throwing money at dealers." My partner is even worse.
I make a decision based on the facts as I see them.
Before I buy a car, I get quotes for servicing for first 100,000 km and for a range of spare parts. Lots of other people do the same. The difference between brands can be huge. We were surprised when I was comparing a Ford Mondeo with a VW Golf - the VW was dramatically cheaper for servicing, from the same multi-franchise dealer. Cost of servicing is becoming more competitive between car makers, that's why they are offering fixed price services and why "sealed for life" assemblies are so common - car companies want to be able to boast low cost of ownership when flogging you a car. Dealers can offer extra incentives - Ford offer free roadside assist for a year with each service, for example. free upgrades of GPS maps is another. It may have been true in the past that dealer servicing was a rip off, but it is much more competitive now. In the town where I get servicing done, there is one particular independent (whom I avoid) whose prices are never less than dealer servicing. My preferred independent, who is a geat mechanic and a really good guy, is not hugely cheaper than the dealer for regular servicng, though for one-off jobs like new brakes he is indeed much cheaper.
I do feel that paying a whisker more for dealer servicing during the warranty perion is an investment in goodwill, to keep the dealer on my side in case the car does something really expensive during the warranty period. Importers can be bastards in refusing legitimate warranty claims, it isn't always black and white. (Peugeot refused a tie rod end warranty claim at 30,000 km on my 307, saying it was a wear and tear item; Skoda did my partners Fabia's tie rod end at 40,000 km under warranty...) Having a dealer arguing for you can be the clincher for a succesful warranty claim.
 
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simca1100 said:
You are assuming that dealers overcharge and independents don't.
That is a bold assumption.
I have found both to be very reasonable at times, though I also have had times when I have run away from a dealer due to an excessive quote, and got the job done much cheaper elsewhere. I have also had my fingers burnt from independents who have charged a fortune for a rotten job, and had to get it done again elsewhere.
I am a total tight arse and I do not "love throwing money at dealers." My partner is even worse.
I make a decision based on the facts as I see them.
Before I buy a car, I get quotes for servicing for first 100,000 km and for a range of spare parts. Lots of other people do the same. The difference between brands can be huge. We were surprised when I was comparing a Ford Mondeo with a VW Golf - the VW was dramatically cheaper for servicing, from the same multi-franchise dealer. Cost of servicing is becoming more competitive between car makers, that's why they are offering fixed price services and why "sealed for life" assemblies are so common - car companies want to be able to boast low cost of ownership when flogging you a car. Dealers can offer extra incentives - Ford offer free roadside assist for a year with each service, for example. free upgrades of GPS maps is another. It may have been true in the past that dealer servicing was a rip off, but it is much more competitive now. In the town where I get servicing done, there is one particular independent (whom I avoid) whose prices are never less than dealer servicing. My preferred independent, who is a geat mechanic and a really good guy, is not hugely cheaper than the dealer for regular servicng, though for one-off jobs like new brakes he is indeed much cheaper.
I do feel that paying a whisker more for dealer servicing during the warranty perion is an investment in goodwill, to keep the dealer on my side in case the car does something really expensive during the warranty period. Importers can be bastards in refusing legitimate warranty claims, it isn't always black and white. (Peugeot refused a tie rod end warranty claim at 30,000 km on my 307, saying it was a wear and tear item; Skoda did my partners Fabia's tie rod end at 40,000 km under warranty...) Having a dealer arguing for you can be the clincher for a succesful warranty claim.
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I like reading meaningful responses like simca1100

I do not appreciate oneliners like 'stop talking' or 'don't post again'
The whole idea of a forum is to have differences in opinions and put it across, it's not a competition that so many members agree so many members disagree - so what? It's still a legitimate opinion and it is still non fiction.

Unfortunately dealers do have a poor reputation that they are not always honest even to expect them to be honest 50% of the time is asking too much - if it does not benefit the business it shall be spunned as 'your fault'. lots have been spunned in marketing about how they take care of customers or customers first etc reality is the dollar sign is still first and if there's no dollars to be made ( or marked up) so be it if it is to the detriment of the customer. I am not against business making money of course they should - but tell me exactly that's what you are doing and I will appreciate, not 'we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.' spinning this kind of response is wholly unacceptable level of service. It implies for you to even find out or for us to even move our arse for you, you need to pay up first - never mind whos right or wrong - pay first then we will cross the bridge - most times like many owners who know nothinng about mechanics customers are at the mercy of the story they spin - at your expense of course. No one has ever heard of a totally honest dealer or manufacturer. It's just the way it's been.
And I agree with you independents are not cheap. The one I go to for many years now is probably marginally at best in prices compared to dealers and at worse - on par. Of course the irony is up until 2018 - they were also on Peugeot website as a recommended service centre then a commercial fall out resulted in their name been taken off, so it's not a matter of tight ass I just feel comfortable since I have been there from the beginning and they have stamped my book every time honored my fixed price vouchers from HQ so there is really no incentive to go elsewhere. And that is why it is difficult to comprehend' je ne comprends pas' the response 'we are not in a position to assist as an authorized Peugeot Dealership did not get the opportunity to diagnose your vehicle.' when this place is a Peugeot authorised service centre until a commercial fall out in 2018 - suddenly all Peugeot specialist in this service centre lost their memory and their years of experience became nothing because they are suddenly not ' an authorized Peugeot Dealership' this is the most patronising thing Peugeot can say and it will cost them.
 
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afterthought: it seemed to me this company do not stand behind their products 100%

I recall not even talking about bills or expenses I incurred, simply wanted them to investigate their part why it failed, I would have been happy if they ask for the failed part to investigate. Hopeful for the outcome in my favor but will not be upset if they have taken the time to show how much they stand behind their products.

However it is evident they do not stand behind their product, not even a shred of curiosity why their non moving part failed at 37 k
and they don't even have that many vehicles to deal with - considering the number they sell say compared to VW even if 0.02% had part failure complaints for them to investigate - not pay out just investigate does not seemed too much to ask for, say 0.02% part failure from Mazda or BMW where they have way way many times sales compared to Peugeot, it would have been a nightmare perhaps I can understand why.

But with the numbers Peugeot have to deal with - it's not too many to have to deal with if they indeed do make quality products. What on earth do they expect? come to work just to sip ice tea in the office and every customer concerns throw it in the too hard basket and refuse to help? (but force them to go and pay at a dealer, and even then the outcome would still be in their favor)

Fobbing customer off to pay at dealer is an extremely lazy way to deal with a problem. With a brand like Peugeot I would be very surprised they do not have engineers, labs in their head office.

Sadly the person who sent the email replies is for sure not some Peugeot engineers but some low paid often casuals at reception. The customer issue never got pass this gate keeper. This is what most people would termed a 'pretend customer caring entity'

Nobody should have to fight tooth and nail to invoke curiosity from the makers why their non moving part failed (so fast). It should have been a given - a company that stands behind their products should have the ethics to investigate their products. After all their reputation is at stake unless they could not be bothered, which seemed more likely than not in this case. And indeed this cost should not be passed on to the customer. I expect a quality manufacturer who manufactures quality products should not have too much cost associated with this kind of matters unless we know now they probably make dud products so financially it is not viable to stand behind their products - since they all come back as complaints.

Keep this up it might become another Honda, leaving the market altogether despite it being very popular.

Unless of course they have a high part failure compared to other cars and they know this - so they decided to put stumbling blocks for customers - such as forcing them to go to a dealer for inspection at the customer's cost despite the part was already fixed and replaced at a previously authorised Peugeot service centre. They must know nobody with a bird's brain would want to pay again after the problem is already fixed and part already replaced, let alone at a dealer.

It's just pure laziness, pulling a fast one and refusal to stand behind their own products and putting $ first over customer. Not putting the best interest of customers at heart is Peugeot's corporate culture.
 
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If you detect a warranted problem, you first contact the seller and tell him about it and show it. Anything else that occurs follows that. They have to see the problem. Peugeot is not different from the other manufacturers and importers.
 
Warranty statements set out clearly what is covered for what period and any exclusions. In any field only authorised agents can assess and carry out warranty repairs. The importers are responsible for minor repairs but major replacements will be charged back to the manufacturer.
Makers take note of patterns of warranty replacements to detect design or batch problems. Back in the 1950's there was direct Australian contribution to 203 and 403 design as a result of road experience but those days are long gone.
 
Being a low kilometres owner, it means I am at a distinct disadvantage because it takes me alot longer to discover faults as my mileage is not proportion to the time spent. Having said that, it is not off by a journey to the moon and back but rather may have been slightly off or do not fit in the exact wording of the warranty time wise, Mine was not the unlimited kilometres deal, it was a fixed mileage and fixed time deal - despite paying the same money, the same car suddenly got 5 years unlimited k warranty few months later to clear stocks - so it is just a matter of playing around with words literally if my car was still in the yard that time when the special was run - it would have been a 5 year warranty instead of 3 - this is literally a playing around with words. With so much room to move from 3 years to 5 years and some special clearance even offer 6 years - you soon find out that these sort of things are literally not hard and fast and is rather fluid and can be mitigated.

This should not disadvantage people who do not drive their car often, in fact not driving the car often means less wear and tear. I would have expected some sort of mitigation in this respect but alas! a company that does not give a tootsie roll!

or put it simply a company that does not have the best interest of the customer at the heart of anything they do, just their wallets.
 
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speaksgeek said:
You paid the same money for the same offer, and are complaining that you chose not to drive to the limits of the km’s offered?
People are trying to be mostly polite, and discuss with you logically, but that appears to be our mistake.

We can explain it to you, but can’t understand it for you.
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so using your logic the speedometer gave you the option to redline it at 120 k but your chose not to therefore why don't you? it is an option but you chose not to.

Being polite to members in this forum is expected, it's not doing something that's so fantastic that's worthy of mention
 
In their heyday in Australia Peugeots had a six month warranty and claims beyond that were not entertained. If warranty is so important choose a model with a long warranty but of course enforcing a warranty is another matter. Most cars nowadays are delivered fault free and warranty claims are low.
 
Russell Hall said:
In their heyday in Australia Peugeots had a six month warranty and claims beyond that were not entertained. If warranty is so important choose a model with a long warranty but of course enforcing a warranty is another matter. Most cars nowadays are delivered fault free and warranty claims are low.
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which is precisely why it beggars belief that they were not in the least interested in a supposedly rare case of a non moving part failure at 37k since it is not always they get this sort of complaints (one would hope for a quality product)

How can that quantity this is a customer centric organisation.
 
Let me get this correctly. You purchased a Peugeot and decided to have it serviced at an independent mechanic.

A secret non moving part failed and you either
a- want it replaced by the dealership for free, or
b- want an explanation from them as to why the part failed.

You didn’t allow the dealership an opportunity to inspect the car as to why the part failed for fear of receiving a bill for their time but you expect their mechanics to look at parts sent in by independent mechanics or disgruntled owners for the cause of the failure?

If your washing machine stopped working would you get the local handyman to have a go at fixing it then send the faulty part to Westinghouse for an explanation, replacement or payment for the work done?
 
pgti6 said:
Let me get this correctly. You purchased a Peugeot and decided to have it serviced at an independent mechanic.

A secret non moving part failed and you either
a- want it replaced by the dealership for free, or
b- want an explanation from them as to why the part failed.

You didn’t allow the dealership an opportunity to inspect the car as to why the part failed for fear of receiving a bill for their time but you expect their mechanics to look at parts sent in by independent mechanics or disgruntled owners for the cause of the failure?

If your washing machine stopped working would you get the local handyman to have a go at fixing it then send the faulty part to Westinghouse for an explanation, replacement or payment for the work done?
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so that is incorrect, the place I go to for service etc from day zero when I brought my new Peugeot was indeed a Peugeot Authorised Service Centre, in fact all my stamps actually says Peugeot and not the independent's name.

However, as I have stated painfully that somewhere circa 2017-circa 2018 or whatever the date was which I was not officially informed by Peugeot, this service centre name was suddenly and quietly taken off Peugeot's website in a sneaky way no announcements, no explanations as to those customers who have been faithfully having their cars serviced and repaired there prior to the name taken off the list.

Essentially, Peugeot now says because we took them off the list of recommended list of places to service/repair your peugeot suddenly and without explanation, it is now deemed that the entire time from day Adam and Eve you have serviced you car at Aunty Kali's garage - is as good as serviced by monkeys.

Forget about Aunty Kali's Garage was on Peugeot's website of recommended place to have your Peugeot serviced, we can put them on the list and we can take them off just on a whim with no explanation and no care in the world what happens to those customer who have been taking Peugeot own website advice to service the car at Aunty Kali's

Now where is the logic in there? You need to accomodate those customers who have been following your website advice from day zero. Peugeot never inform me Hey Mister customer, we understand you may have followed our advice on our website and brought your car to Aunty Kali's please note that Aunty Kali is no longer....on XXX January 20XX We understand this may cause inconveniences to customers and during this transition period from XX-XX-20XX to XX-XX-20XX Peugeot will honor all services and repaired delivered at Aunty Kali's

Now that would have been proper and ethical.

However Peugeot did nothing like that, instead I found out only after visitng the service centre the 3rd service and they continue to honor my HQ voucher for fixed price service. I only found out one year after the fact as those service are once a year.

This is akin to putting out information and then subsequently retracting it wih no explanation and no accountability.

And then suddenly patronise me by saying oh dear you went to Aunty Kali not that snazzy dealership in uptown. No then we don't believe Aunty Kali had done the right thing, despite it was us who told you when you bought your car new that Aunty Kali is the know all and be all and since our business relationship with Aunty Kali is now dissolved we don't really give 2 rats eyes that we have actually told you it was ok to bring your car to Aunty Kali - see we don't have responbsibility under any legislation. Since our business relationship with Aunty Kali was dissolved and we kept it a secret without telling all our customers- we don't care if we did tell our customers at the beginning that Aunty Kali was dead good, she's no longer dead good that is all.

So you said you had a problem and you have been taking it to Aunty Kali's?? Who is Aunty Kali? never heard of it.

You get the drift.
 
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