Re-lubricating Fluidbloc bushes for R8 upper wishbones

I would get a wheel alignment done John to make sure that the front wheels are pointing in the right direction. Doesn't have to be out far to make a big difference.
Thanks Col, I came to the same conclusion and have booked it in at a place I trust for Monday morning! I suspect castor is wrong. I can get the toe-in close in the garage but even when I have that adjustent close and adjust it off a bit to the right it still drifts left! I marked the castor eccentrics but now of course am not 100% certain that I didn't swap the eccentrics side to side by accident.... We'll see.
The steering is noticeably lighter - rather more positive camber with the new lower bushes I reckon.
 
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Thanks Col, I came to the same conclusion and have booked it in at a place I trust for Monday morning! I suspect castor is wrong. I can get the toe-in close in the garage but even when I have that adjustent close and adjust it off a bit to the right it still drifts left! I marked the castor eccentrics but now of course am not 100% certain that I didn't swap the eccentrics side to side by accident.... We'll see.
The steering is noticeably lighter - rather more positive camber with the new lower bushes I reckon.

Yer easy to get sides swapped over, I have done the counting turns etc when replacing tie rod ends etc and had the alignment out by a mile.

Be interested in the report back Monday night.
 
Yer easy to get sides swapped over, I have done the counting turns etc when replacing tie rod ends etc and had the alignment out by a mile.

Be interested in the report back Monday night.
I'll make sure to report in! I had multiple attempts to get the toe-in about right but nothing stopped it drifting left. I've fitted the new style tie rods which makes it a helluva lot easier.

I have a sneaking concern about rear alignment... But that hasn't changed since it drove straight three weeks ago.
 
I'll make sure to report in! I had multiple attempts to get the toe-in about right but nothing stopped it drifting left. I've fitted the new style tie rods which makes it a helluva lot easier.

I have a sneaking concern about rear alignment... But that hasn't changed since it drove straight three weeks ago.

Get them to do a 4 wheel alignment, also get a print out of before and after so that you have a reference.
 
Get them to do a 4 wheel alignment, also get a print out of before and after so that you have a reference.
Hi John :)
If you are going to get a professional alignment then could I give you some ideas so you end up with it done properly. I forget what the book says now but it does specify some things to do to get the front end ready for the alignment. This involves a weight and the position of the rack height as I remember, possibly other things too.
However now a days the alignment machine has instructions on its program for cars that the operator will use without question and usually not understanding what they mean. The instruction are often poor translations that are impossible to understand anyway. A loose - loose situation. o_ODo not assume the operator and his expensive machine will give a good result.

So my suggestion is this, get a normal weight on the front to represent your normal use including your weight on the seat. Check the rack height is even, as it affects the toe on suspension movement and the measurements on lock for caster. Then check the castor and camber is the same both sides and close to the figures it should be. Then get the toe correct. Note the toe has no effect on the pulling to one side. It does affect the driving stability and wander and the wear rate. ;) The rear alignment is interesting but if not correct there is a problem there so do not set the front to that.
Jaahn
 
Hi John :)
If you are going to get a professional alignment then could I give you some ideas so you end up with it done properly. I forget what the book says now but it does specify some things to do to get the front end ready for the alignment. This involves a weight and the position of the rack height as I remember, possibly other things too.
However now a days the alignment machine has instructions on its program for cars that the operator will use without question and usually not understanding what they mean. The instruction are often poor translations that are impossible to understand anyway. A loose - loose situation. o_ODo not assume the operator and his expensive machine will give a good result.

So my suggestion is this, get a normal weight on the front to represent your normal use including your weight on the seat. Check the rack height is even, as it affects the toe on suspension movement and the measurements on lock for caster. Then check the castor and camber is the same both sides and close to the figures it should be. Then get the toe correct. Note the toe has no effect on the pulling to one side. It does affect the driving stability and wander and the wear rate. ;) The rear alignment is interesting but if not correct there is a problem there so do not set the front to that.
Jaahn
Appreciate that and those suggestions Jaahn. I'm going to the (happily nearby) folk who can balance my wheels and are the classic Michelin agents for WA. I'm known there which is a good start. It was tracking perfectly before I rebuilt the front suspension this last couple of weeks, so caster has been my suspicion, and the rear end isn't the issue (although I'll get it checked out of interest). The car has been tee-boned and repaired twice in the last 35 years, but it does seem to be straight!

Mr Geckoeng reckons he has used 40 kg in the boot as an appropriate load (versus me a metre or so further back) and has been doing that for a long time, meaning more decades than he'd prefer me to mention). So I'm doing pretty much exactly what you are suggesting. Good to have two similar opinions, so thanks for taking the trouble. It's important because the nuts you loosen to adjust caster also hold the lower wishbone pin and stop it rotating. So if you get the adjustment made and the car is unladen, the front Silentblocs are tightened in wrong place (again, I'd add with a blush). I'm sure I had the caster adjusted about 25 years ago and it might be when the car always had 40 kg of cement in the front - my wife was driving it to the school she taught at and the Kwinana Freeway can have a hell of a crosswind! Since we've been gentrified, cement now comes in 20 kg bags, so there are two in there....

Thanks again.

So I'm going in overalls, armed with the factory manual and a spare wishbone to show the guy how it works.
 
You didn't count how may turns it took to get it out?
It's not like that, it's an eccentric on the lower wishbone mounting for caster. I marked the eccentrics and reassembled them the same way.

Regarding toe-in, I fitted new arms of a different type and used string lines to get a bit of toe-in.

It's not pulling badly, just drifting gently to the left. Must be caster I reckon. It was fine before and that was with flogged out bushes.
 
Appreciate that and those suggestions Jaahn. I'm going to the (happily nearby) folk who can balance my wheels and are the classic Michelin agents for WA. I'm known there which is a good start. It was tracking perfectly before I rebuilt the front suspension this last couple of weeks, so caster has been my suspicion, and the rear end isn't the issue (although I'll get it checked out of interest). The car has been tee-boned and repaired twice in the last 35 years, but it does seem to be straight!

Mr Geckoeng reckons he has used 40 kg in the boot as an appropriate load (versus me a metre or so further back) and has been doing that for a long time, meaning more decades than he'd prefer me to mention). So I'm doing pretty much exactly what you are suggesting. Good to have two similar opinions, so thanks for taking the trouble. It's important because the nuts you loosen to adjust caster also hold the lower wishbone pin and stop it rotating. So if you get the adjustment made and the car is unladen, the front Silentblocs are tightened in wrong place (again, I'd add with a blush). I'm sure I had the caster adjusted about 25 years ago and it might be when the car always had 40 kg of cement in the front - my wife was driving it to the school she taught at and the Kwinana Freeway can have a hell of a crosswind! Since we've been gentrified, cement now comes in 20 kg bags, so there are two in there....

Thanks again.

So I'm going in overalls, armed with the factory manual and a spare wishbone to show the guy how it works.
John, I also took the factory manual with me when I had the R17 wheel alignment done at Pedders here in Mandurah. It was after I did all the bushes and ball joints. It did help them and they did a printed report in a folder for me. It tracks well and so they did a great job. Good luck but it should be fine once checked and adjusted.
 
Hi John :)
If you normally have 40KG in the boot then you need to put in another couple of bags for your weight ;) to do the alignment. I found the 8 was always better with a bit of weight in the front. The ride was much better too as it did not 'top out' at the front on poor roads either.
Good luch having a good place to do the alignment, I have not found one yet. As I said on another thread the new fancy machines are only as good as the monkey operating them. Not much knowledge of the basic principles I find !!
If it was tracking well before it will not be the rear but --eh-- something you did -- Uh OOh :rolleyes:🥴
Good luck Jaahn
 
Hi John :)
If you normally have 40KG in the boot then you need to put in another couple of bags for your weight ;) to do the alignment. I found the 8 was always better with a bit of weight in the front. The ride was much better too as it did not 'top out' at the front on poor roads either.
Good luch having a good place to do the alignment, I have not found one yet. As I said on another thread the new fancy machines are only as good as the monkey operating them. Not much knowledge of the basic principles I find !!
If it was tracking well before it will not be the rear but --eh-- something you did -- Uh OOh :rolleyes:🥴
Good luck Jaahn
Correct and thanks!
 
Well, an interesting morning at the wheel aligners! They let me into the workshop with the young bloke on the mighty magic machine. He was very good and worked with me (or, rather, I worked with him!) to play with caster.

The first photo is before adjustment and the second shows the best we managed.

Several interesting things emerged:

1. Camber and caster are not independent - we know this I guess!
2. Adjusting the caster on one side definitely changed the other side a small amount! We pondered this for some time! I conclude that the "rough road" suspension on the Australian cars, which includes a strengthening rod between the suspension turrets, transfers a slight load across when caster is changed on the opposite side. It definitely happened every time we changed one side. Light and flexible, the R8.
3. No matter how much we fiddled, we couldn't get caster up to 8 degrees, not the 9.5 degrees minimum in the wheel alignment database. Nor could we get them exactly the same, so I'm left with a fraction of a degree difference and maybe a hint of left hand drift. Road camber effects and tyre wear pattern might be most of this of course.
4. Toe-in wasn't too bad set with a tight string line at home. Nor was it good!
5. I will now get a cheap 26 mm spanner and get it milled down to the thickness needed to fit the eccentric adjuster properly. Then more fiddling will be easy.

After all this, I realise I don't know what the magnitude of error is in the magic machine's measurements.

All very interesting! Thanks to all who offered advice. As usual, I've learned from the experience!

Front suspension alignment before adjustment July 2020.jpg
Front suspension alignment 13 July 2020.jpg
 
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Looks like you had a good day at the wheel aligners John. You have certainly improved on what you started with.

These wheel alignment machines just make doing the job easier and faster, I wouldn't say they are more accurate that what can be achieved at home with a great deal of time setting up string lines. When setting up the string lines you need to be very accurate, make sure you have the centre line of the car right and also make sure that your external string lines are exactly parallel with the centre line of the car. You can do this by checking diagonals to make sure they are both the same. also need to triple check the measurements to make sure they are reproducible after every adjustment.

With the specs for toe, camber and castor there is usually a plus and minus figure that the manufacturer specifies, as long as the alignment is within these specs it should be fine. On the toe setting on my R12 I have it set at the maximum allowable of toe out to aid turn in without chopping out the front tyres.

Also tyre wear can effect how well a car will track, this can be checked by swapping the front tyres from one side to the other. Just out of interest did you put the left front tyre back in its original position before you started your bush replacement/lubrication job?

Anyway its all good fun and you always learn something when doing this sort of thing. There a few good YouTube videos on how to this sort of thing at home.
 
Looks like you had a good day at the wheel aligners John. You have certainly improved on what you started with.

These wheel alignment machines just make doing the job easier and faster, I wouldn't say they are more accurate that what can be achieved at home with a great deal of time setting up string lines. When setting up the string lines you need to be very accurate, make sure you have the centre line of the car right and also make sure that your external string lines are exactly parallel with the centre line of the car. You can do this by checking diagonals to make sure they are both the same. also need to triple check the measurements to make sure they are reproducible after every adjustment.

With the specs for toe, camber and castor there is usually a plus and minus figure that the manufacturer specifies, as long as the alignment is within these specs it should be fine. On the toe setting on my R12 I have it set at the maximum allowable of toe out to aid turn in without chopping out the front tyres.

Also tyre wear can effect how well a car will track, this can be checked by swapping the front tyres from one side to the other. Just out of interest did you put the left front tyre back in its original position before you started your bush replacement/lubrication job?

Anyway its all good fun and you always learn something when doing this sort of thing. There a few good YouTube videos on how to this sort of thing at home.
Thanks Col. Yes, tyres in same locations before and after. The tyres look perfect and are only 5-6 years old, but a slight wear pattern could indeed be there. We won't discuss the age of the rear tyres but they did visit Cowra..... There's no microcracking, plenty of tread and no scuffing. The insides are worn more than the outsides of course.

We couldn't get the caster inside the specified range - it is a couple of degrees low but closer from side to side than before. Immediately after posting I got an email from France asking whether I had realised there were two bolt diameters on the lower wishbone mounts! I hadn't and both sizes fit in all the holes! It could be that I have the smaller diameter bolt(s) in the eccentric device. If so, although it is only 0.5 mm , that could make quite a difference in trying to adjust caster. I've ordered a set of new bolts from Mecaparts, so I'll have a further play in a few weeks when I have the bolts, have the right diameters in the right holes, have made my thin 26 mm spanner and am in the mood. It's very close to dead straight as it will almost follow the camber in both directions so it's hardly a major irritant, problem or danger. But of course I would like it to track as perfectly as an R8 can on wind-free days....
 
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