R4 CHASSIS NUMBERS

REN TIN TIN

REN TIN TIN

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I'm thinking of buying an R4 project. The car I've been looking at has been diaassembled with the body removed from the floorpan and the diamond identification plate has been removed. The owner has 'misplaced' the plate and thinks it is sitting in on of the boxes of bits.
Is the chassis number stamped on the body and/or the floorpan anywhere.

Ren
cheers!
 
The R4 chassis number is stamped on the floorpan on the crossmember adjacent to the outer RH front seat slide. It is stamped into the painted metal and usually the number is obscured due to surface rust.

Look carefully for rust in the floorpan, the strengthened AUS spec "poor road" floorpan has a lot of double skinning that can hide rust as well as the usual places that are pretty obviously rusty in the floorpan.

Simon
 
Had a close look at the chassis, no numbers near the seat runners or anywhere that I could see. The cross member is in it’s original black paint and isn’t rusty so isn’t hidden.
The floorpan is pretty good rust wise even though it lived outside for a time (on its side).
A lot of the front floor is shot but the toe boards and structural parts are okay apart from a couple of small sections on the offside rail.

Ren
cheers!
 
There is a hook on the front of the cross member, and a bolthole at the rear of the cross member where the seat slide or attachment bolts onto. The chassis number is stamped in line with the hook and bolt hole parallel to the RH outer chassis rail. They are usually very faint, and in some circumstances can only be discerned as depressions or dents where the number has been stamped. On my R4's, and on others I've looked at, the number has always been stamped in the same place. Starts with R112x (or R210x if a van chassis) then the chassis number

The front interior floor section can be replaced with a rust repair panel available from Caravelle Imports in Melbourne (to order if not in stock).

The area under the toe boards can be a nuisance for rust, they generally rust from the inside out, so an external inspection can appear to be fine, Mr Rego Inspector comes along, prods with screwdriver and finds a big hole.

Same with the front chassis rails, they are double skinned underneath, and end up rusting inside out at the sides first, which is generally being covered by all the grunge from the motor......
 
Thanks Simon, i'll have another look but there weren't any dents or anything that even looked like there could be a number. I guess they could be very feint.
This particular car didn't have the seats fitted but the runners were still there but these straddled the centre crossmember and were bolted to the floor using bolts around 4" long with spacers. (This car had runners for a bench seat). There are hooks on the front at the ends of the crossmember but they don't seem to be used.
I've actually found the identification plates and the car is a type R1123 but I want to make sure the chassis number is the same as the number on the identification plate. I don't want Mr. Rego Inspector to tell me they're different. This happened on my R12 where the number on the compliace plate was different from the the chassis number. They still registed it though, they thought this was some quirk that the French did.

Ren
cheers!
 
The location can vary very slightly, some are where the seat crossmember overlaps the RH chassis rail, it must have been a firmer place to stamp, the other was a bit closer to the seat slide. If there is no number perhaps the chassis has been changed with a new one at some stage in the cars life.

The diamond shaped plate details the chassis number, it has the vehicle type, R1123, and the chassis number. The oval shaped plate is the fabrication number, it contains the type, R1123, version (80 on AUS spec cars), and the fabrication number which is the actual number of that particular type starting from car 1.

Was the rego guy trying to compare the oval plate fabrication number with the chassis number on the compliance plate?
 
Simon,
Still can't find any numbers anywhere on the centre crossmember. The only indentations are from the spot welds. Still, if there's no number I can have the chassis number that is on the diamond plate stamped into the crossmember and then won't have any problems with them matching.
The oval plate has the R1123, the number 75 stamped in the centre and the fabrication number.
The Rego guy (well, it was actually a girl) was comparing the chassis number on the diamond plate with the number on the square complaince plate, the one that say's the car is manufactured by Renault Australia and conforms to Australian Design Rules ADRxxx etc.

Ren
cheers!
 
Version 75 is the Aussie spec RHD poor roads tropical climate version, also used in Africa NZ etc. The fabrication number is likely to be very low as it was superseded by the virtually identical 80.

On the 12 the chassis number on the square compliance plate should match that on the diamond plate which matches the number stamped into the RH spring tower. Sounds like the car has seen some biffo in the past and the plates have been mixed with those off another car.
 
Yes, the R4 is an early one. I can't remember the number offhand (I'm at work) but it is a five digit number, ie less than 100,000.
And yes, the R12 did take a hit on the front nearside and had the innerguard replaced at some stage. Unfortunately the number on the plate was different but worked out in the end.
Is it possible to get a compliance plate reissued?

Ren
cheers!
 
It will be a very low number!

Not sure about getting a compliance plate reissued, it must happen in cases especially now where cars get written off, plates destroyed and then somebody comes along and rebuilds a car. Probably the best plasce to start would be the rego office. Would it be worth the hassle on yours though, especially as the inspector has passed it as is OK?
 
Simon,

You appear to be very knowledgeable about things Renault, can you please clarify this fabrication number thing.
For example, If this R4 I have is a type R1123 and the fabrication number is 90,000, if this the 90,000th R4 or the 90,000th R1123.

Also, if the year (and possibly month) of manufacture on the car anywhere. Possibly included in the chassis number?
This thing doesn't appear to have ever been fitted with a complince plate. I'm not sure when complaince plates become obligatory.

Ren
cheers!
 
The fabrication number refers to that particular type. So in your case, if it is 90,000 on the R1123 tag, it is the 90,000 R1123 produced. An R1123 is an R4 Export, basically "luxury" trim with a folding rear seat, all synchro gearbox and 845cc motor.

Now, assessing the date of production is difficult, both carby and distributor have dates stamped into the body, and some instruments are stamped with the date. But these are French production dates of the components. Dating an AUS R4 is a bit of an art. First you have to work out if it is local or overseas assembled. If it is not assembled in AUS it will be a private import. All AUS assembled cars have body colour painted sliding window surrounds, French cars (excepting early pre-production cars) have black ones. Also French production cars have a stencilled paint code on the RH inner wing. The AUS colours are a dead givaway. Most cars have been repainted though which makes it difficult to spot.

On AUS production cars, there is the French stamping and boxing date for the CKD package, basically the French model year, then there is the AUS production date. My R4 being a case, it is a 1964 French model year which would have been produced in say the third quarter of 1964 (from the fabrication number, assuming there is an even spread of production through the year). It was asembled in Australia between July and September 1966 and first registered in Adelaide in February 1967. Once you have seen many cars it is like a jigsaw, you see how the production fits together and the differences between the various batches.

I'm not too sure of the relationship between the chassis number and oval plate number, AUS assembled cars have a pattern, full imports don't. It's like they created a pattern on the AUS assembled cars. (Yes, I am a sad individual, things like this intrigue me :)).

Compliance plates are a totally different thing again, they were only fitted after 1/1/1970 when ADR's first came into play.

<small>[ 10 January 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Simon ]</small>
 
Hi!

REN TIN TIN:
Simon,

Also, if the year (and possibly month) of manufacture on the car anywhere. Possibly included in the chassis number?
Click to expand...
At least on the R16s and R17s I've checked the month and year of production is printed on air-filter box. On R16 TLs inside the air-filter box, next to the carburettor intake, on the others with a cylindric type it's printed outside, on the bottom.
Since I've only seen french made Renaults I don't know if this applies to aussie built cars too.
 
Simon,

I used to think I knew a bit about Renaults after 36 years of ownership. Your knowledge is awesome. I doffs me cap.

Best wishes

John Waterhouse
 
Don't mean to hijack this thread at all, but what do the R4's go like? From pics I have seen they seem fairly basic inside, but then we are talking 60's huh.... and they were built up until the 80's? Were there any major improvements or was it all fairly cosmetic only...

I have only seen a couple in NZ, are they a fairly commercial type of vehicle, or do they have similar underpinnings to the 8,10, 12's? Just underpowered and softer springing etc etc? I'd imagine they are fairly light too, just thinking if they go OK and if one ever came up for sale (at the right price) it could be interesting to pick one up.

Ben
 
R4's are cool. Performance is relative, for 845cc and three wide ratio gears. You tend to surf the fairly wide band of torque.

I've used mine for many long trips, it is usually cruised at an indicated 70-75mph. On the Hay Plains it wasn't caught and didn't gain on the many trucks cruising that strip, so I guess it works out at about 100-105km/h based on the speed limited trucks. However it can become a mobile chicane in hilly country.

The stock RHD clutch is heavy for continued city driving, but R4's are brilliant for blasting up the inside of Melbourne trams and the parked cars.

It is more like the early 5 and 16 than anything else, the design being a platform chassis with a bolt on body, suspension longitudinal torsion bars up front, transverse rear with odd wheelbases. The engine is behind the gearbox, again like the early 5 and 16. Weight is in the order of 650kg's, power is about 30bhp but in certain terrain they can be a nippy machine if the hills are not too steep. The early motor is basically 750/Dauphine, but rotating in the opposite direction so it can be started on the crank if the 6V battery is flat, later cars were 12V and lost the crank handle dog on the gearbox.

Nutshell history:

Sept 61, R3/R4 introduced, R3 603cc, R4 747cc. Five door or four door with drop down tailgate versions. Cheap and luxury trims.

1963 R4 export with 845cc motor and all synchro gearbox.

1965 New cream plastic dashboard and tortoiseshell steering wheel.

1967 Four speed gearbox, new grill.

1975 New plastic grille.

1978 R4 GTL fitted with a detuned 1108cc motor and fourspeed gearbox. The fitting of this motor makes it eas to drop in mechanicals from say an R5 Alpine turbo.....

<a href="http://members.chello.nl/~f.sikkema1/r4at/verhaal/verhaal.html" target="_blank">http://members.chello.nl/~f.sikkema1/r4at/verhaal/verhaal.html</a>

1992 Discontinued.

<small>[ 12 January 2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Simon ]</small>
 
I've always though they'd be nice with a stock 12TS motor and a four speed. Just the right amount of power for the weight. I just love utilitarian cars like this. Brilliant.

Stuey
 
Simon, I have to agree with John Waterhouse. I don't know where you get all this information from but it's incredible that you can quote some of these specification.

First you have to work out if it is local or overseas assembled. If it is not assembled in AUS it will be a private import. All AUS assembled cars have body colour painted sliding window surrounds, French cars (excepting early pre-production cars) have black ones. Also French production cars have a stencilled paint code on the RH inner wing. The AUS colours are a dead givaway. Most cars have been repainted though which makes it difficult to spot.
Click to expand...
HMMMM, now this is getting complicated. My beast has black window surrounds which should make it a French assembled unit, and this could explain why there's no chassis number stamped in the crossmember (assuming this was done by Renault Australia).
Unfortunately, the inner guards are in storage but they are new and in black primer anyway so this won't help. The outside of the car has had a respray but the inside is still original and the car is painted an off-white common to the Aussie assembled cars(I had a R16 this colour and I think the colour is called Ghost Gum).
The only date I can find is July 17th 1963 which is printed on the instrument cluster. It doesn't indicate when it was built but at least this means it can't be any older than July 1963.
The motor has been repalced so this won't mean much.
I suppose that it really doesn't matter whether the cars are made in France or Australia.

Ren
cheers!
 
Nah, I don't really know a lot, I've just seen a few R4's.

Your car could well be a private import, especially if it is from a country with the same specification code as Australia, such as Aden, Kenya, Malaysia and South Africa among a handful of others. In that case it would either have been made in France, or to the French specification in its country of origin (meaning the black painted metal window frames).

There are a surprising number of imported R4's out there, I've seen them from Canada, Africa, France and the UK among others. Another thought, this may be a long shot depending on if the bits on the car are all original. The cover on the steering rack may contain a clue, Australian cars have AUSTRALIE and DROITE stencilled on the cover. Cars assembled in other countries may have the country of assembly (other than France)stencilled on there too, possibly......

The colour, if Australian painted, will be a creamy white called Alpine white, Ghost Gum is a very bright white used from mid 1974 onwards.

It doesn't really matter where the car is made, but it is nice to know where the car came from and its history of how it got to where it is.
 
For those that are interested, found this on where the R4 identification paltes/number should be.
Sorry about the quality, I had to reduce them to fit the 100kb limit on images.



Ren
:cheers:
 

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