R18 block with 16 TS head
- Thread starter AU-YT
- Start date
The biggest problem i can see, is the water pump would be on the wrong end af the head, R17 cross flow might be a better choice, otherwise i'm not really sure. cheers!
Yep,
I'd agree with Damien on that one. Are you trying to do so to get bigger valves etc?
Perhaps if you explain your reasons for doing it a more accurate answer can be given.
Cheers Ben
ps I have an R17 with a fuego (843) 1647cc motor in it......
I'd agree with Damien on that one. Are you trying to do so to get bigger valves etc?
Perhaps if you explain your reasons for doing it a more accurate answer can be given.
Cheers Ben
ps I have an R17 with a fuego (843) 1647cc motor in it......
Yea proberley the best thing to do, would be to use a R18 1647cc bottom end with a R17 crosflow head.
That would proberley work would'nt it ?
Graeme whats it goin in ??
That would proberley work would'nt it ?
Graeme whats it goin in ??
Is that 'properly' or 'probably'?
The 17 crossflow head, as far as I know, is the same as the 16TS head.
Isn't the 18 an overhead cam engine? If that's the case, you would have no chance at all of matching them up. Not unless you wanted to run with self-opening valves.
The 17 crossflow head, as far as I know, is the same as the 16TS head.
Isn't the 18 an overhead cam engine? If that's the case, you would have no chance at all of matching them up. Not unless you wanted to run with self-opening valves.
No. The R18 GTS has a similar non crossflow pushrod head to the R16 TL.
Only the 2 litre and larger models had an OHC engine and none of these were sold in Australia.
Dave
<small>[ 04 May 2003, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
It can be done, but the water pump has to be mounted on the other end of the head as there isn't enrough room in the 18 engine bay, I am presuming you want the motor for an 18. The 18 cam is probably not as "hot" as the 16TS so a cam regrind would be in order. The 17TL motor also has stuff on the wrong end so it will not fit straight into the 18 engine bay. In a nut shell it is not too big a job but it will take a bit of "customising".
AU-YT.....
All things being equal the head will go straight on, yes. Notwithstanding the water pump and all other external bits; would the cam-shaft from the "donor" engine need to be transplanted also???
Due to the cross-flow design of the 16/17 head, the lobes will be different from the 18??It being from #1cylinder arranged as follows, ex/in-in/ex-ex/in-in/ex (picture the manifolds the four inlet ports are in 2 groups of two???(similar to an R12 head) where as the 16/17 head is cross-flow and the cam lobes should be either in/ex-in/ex-in/ex-in/ex or ex/in-ex/in-ex/in-ex/in depending which way the engine is viewed. I may be wrong, but it's worth checking or may-be someone will know.
Chris.
All things being equal the head will go straight on, yes. Notwithstanding the water pump and all other external bits; would the cam-shaft from the "donor" engine need to be transplanted also???
Due to the cross-flow design of the 16/17 head, the lobes will be different from the 18??It being from #1cylinder arranged as follows, ex/in-in/ex-ex/in-in/ex (picture the manifolds the four inlet ports are in 2 groups of two???(similar to an R12 head) where as the 16/17 head is cross-flow and the cam lobes should be either in/ex-in/ex-in/ex-in/ex or ex/in-ex/in-ex/in-ex/in depending which way the engine is viewed. I may be wrong, but it's worth checking or may-be someone will know.
Chris.
Another thing worthwhile checking is piston clearances. The 77mm bore 16TL has different pistons to the 77mm bore 16TS/17TL for the purposes of clearing the valves. Not sure how the 18 compares being the 79mm bore as opposed to the 77mm bore.
I've been told that because the R18 head has much smaller combustion chambers than the R16TS/R17 crossflow heads, that if you fit a crossflow head to an R18 with the stock 18 pistons, the compression will be alot lower than an R17.
Dave
Hi guys
I am entertained by the responses.
Whats it goning in
Mid engine space frame car the water pum need to be over the bell housing and I dont need the crank pully. As far as my reasuch goes there were engines buit of this combination for different markets in fact I believe any one with a fuego manual will find this.
I like making odd things and have found that the French and the the bunch east of there made a lots of things that can be combined in the own designs.
As for pistons and barrels I intend to have forged ones made to suit with 10.5 comp and 42mm vales and a cam to be defined. probably Alpine / gordini spec.
What is nice is so much is available from France thought the Alpine Parts suppliers.
Hope I have awsered some questions.
Graeme
I am entertained by the responses.
Whats it goning in
Mid engine space frame car the water pum need to be over the bell housing and I dont need the crank pully. As far as my reasuch goes there were engines buit of this combination for different markets in fact I believe any one with a fuego manual will find this.
I like making odd things and have found that the French and the the bunch east of there made a lots of things that can be combined in the own designs.
As for pistons and barrels I intend to have forged ones made to suit with 10.5 comp and 42mm vales and a cam to be defined. probably Alpine / gordini spec.
What is nice is so much is available from France thought the Alpine Parts suppliers.
Hope I have awsered some questions.
Graeme
Ok if any of you guys out there have pulled off such conversion, what do you use to run the water pump. Seeing the R18 block doesn't have the cam shaft pully stickin out the back
I have not sighted an 18 block as such but from the manuals I have The renault ones are the best I have seen the block has the provision for the Cam extension housing to be fitted.
The engine is not going in a Renault but will be used in the same way as the Lotus Europa and the waterpump being at the flywheel end is a great advantage. Basically the engine Package will be bespoke to suit a mid engine car.
The engine is not going in a Renault but will be used in the same way as the Lotus Europa and the waterpump being at the flywheel end is a great advantage. Basically the engine Package will be bespoke to suit a mid engine car.
The 18 block does have a blanking plate where the cam drive normally comes out on the 17 block. All you need is the extension housing from a 16/17 engine and the cam, of course. Also the small amount of comp. ratio lost with the flat top 18 pistons would be made up by the 20cc per cyl greater capacity, besides most of the 16/17 heads have been machined on rebuilds anyway giving a greater comp ratio.
I don't think an 18 has enough valve lift to need recesses. I have not seen 18 pistons in a long time though.