Question for experts: colours for the ID19 "Parisienne"

[Docteur Danche]

Hi all, this is Yves from Paris, France.

Some of you helped me to build this page about the ID19 Parisienne from Heidelberg, which is very very exotic to me:
http://www.nuancierds.fr/DT ID19 Parisienne.htm

I wonder if we could go a bit further about colour codes.

Here is a list of available Dulux colour codes for the ID parisienne, coming from previous exchanges on Aussiefrogs:

0070 Black
4318 Angora White
4319 Lido Blue
4320 Curaçao
4322 Vert Reims
4323 Boulogne Green
4981 Mistral Grey
4988 Alouette Ivory
5376 Carmen Rouge
5394 Olive Green
5761 ?
9936 Charcoal Grey

Question 1:
Do you think this list is exact and complete? Does a Dulux document exist about this topic?

Question 2:
The chassis plate has also 3 figures in front of the colour code:

For example, 222 00070 is a black ID Parisienne featured in "original DS" from Reynolds, with two tones red and white interior.
Do you think that these figures (222, 223, ...225) has a particular meaning? (the seats colour maybe?)

Do you have seen numeric combinations that you know original, that might help to imagine what was this code meant for?
Do you have a theory about this?

Thanks!
Yves

 

[harrisson_citroen]

Bonjour Yves,

Je ne peux pas t'aider a propos de l'ID, mais felicitations pour ta maitrise de l'Anglais.
Je suis ici depuis 30 ans et j'ecris moins bien que toi!

Felicitations pour ton site web que je consulte souvent.

Philippe

 

[WEST-VTS]

Does this page help at all ?

http://www.citroen-ds-id.com/index.html?ds/DS_Colour_Codes.html

.

 

[Docteur Danche]

Does this page help at all ?

http://www.citroen-ds-id.com/index.html?ds/DS_Colour_Codes.html

.

No, because this page deals with colours for European models. My question is about Australian assembled ID, Parisienne, she had special Dulux colours.

PS: merci Philippe.

 

[richo]

WEST-VTS

If you are not aware, Yves ( Docteur Danche ) has
THE website to which we all refer when asking about matters of colour and many other interesting specifications.
His knowledge base and enthusiasm is unlimited and applauded by many if not all.

Look here....
http://www.nuancierds.fr/entreeuk.htm

 

[Middlemoon.1]

Dear Docteur,

Your list does not appear to include the 'pinky beige' colour which was definitely a Heidelberg Parisienne colour - I have known a number of them. It was the Dulux equivalent of the French 'Escale Blonde' colour, but a bit paler in appearance. Reynolds does not list it. It was used by Holden cars in the early sixties also. Here is the colour on an FB Holden of the same period:

Best wishes,

It is wonderful that you are so passionate about these distinctive Australian IDs. They are a very rare car now in their original form.

 

[Bruce Llewellyn]

Australian ID colours

The missing code might be sunbust gold (refered to also as "Baby poo brown") I'll check if I can.

The colour range was the same for Triumph, Peugeot 404, early 504, Renault 8, 10, and early 12 so there might be information for those cars.

I have several Peugeots from the period, I'll see if I can get codes off them. I also have a Parisienne, very sad, which has a black roof overpainted in white. Original panels were a cream colour as far as is known. I has been buldozed, but I have some spare body sections for restoration.

The car was rescued from a landfill some miles west of Leyburn about 15 years ago and has been on blocks here ever since. I have engine, but no rods (pinched for a traction...) I need to see if I can find a cylinder head. I have a gearbox, steering rack wheel etc... The rest of the bits will have to be souced from later french built cars unfortunatly.

The enterior is red on red, not the two tone shown in Reynolds. The headlining cloth is the same as that used on Australian assempled Peugeots.

Bruce.

 

[Docteur Danche]

Hi Middlemoon!
Do you mean this colour (enclosed)?

Can anybody manage to find its exact name and Dulux code?

 

[Docteur Danche]

Hi Bruce

About the "red on red" interior:
can you manage to read the figures for "COLOUR" on your body plate?

Does it say 225?

 

[Middlemoon.1]

Hello again,

Well, yes that looks like a similar colour, but of course that is a Slough car. I have had trouble sourcing the Balm/Dulux code for this colour. I may be able to find it for Holden pictured in my last post. I will see what I can find out. Until recently I owned an ID that was originally this colour - but it's code suggested another colour which is confusing! I will try to find some more information. I can say without any doubt that this colour was available on the Heidelberg Parisienne - approximately from 61 - 64.

 

[donat]

Tim, are you referring to the colour of William Hastie's car?

1962 ---A? ID19P (Aust) sedan No. 19628653. series 6440 (Buckle classification 82-691). Colour 2224320 Curacao tan. William Hastie Brisbane,Australia

 

[Bruce Llewellyn]

Trim colour

Hi Bruce

About the "red on red" interior:
can you manage to read the figures for "COLOUR" on your body plate?

Does it say 225?

I've got to find the body plate- It was pulled off before the car was dumped and the guy who dumped it gave me the plate when I scrounged the car. I'll have a hunt and let you know.

Bruce.

 

[donat]

Bruce, that plate would come handy towards the Longstroke census of ID/DS cars in Australia that Mr. John Paas started many moons ago.

 

[Middlemoon.1]

Yes, Donat, but from memory William told me that he estimated or eye matched his car - didn't do it by code. I'm not sure whether his was originally that colour. It is also a bit different to the original - as per the holden I pictured. The car Doublechevron is working on seems a bit similar also, but browner I think...

I would love for this one to be solved as it perplexed me for many years. I could not eye match my car (or should I say your car) when I came to put the original colour back, because in the 80s when I - impulsively and stupidly - painted her pearl white (not angora either) I stripped to bare metal all over and in and out leaving no trace of the original anywhere.

If William can confirm that Curaco Tan is the one...that would be great - but like the majority of Parisienne owners, I don't think he frequents aussiefrogs...?

Tim

 

[Bruce Llewellyn]

Parisienne data

Bruce, that plate would come handy towards the Longstroke census of ID/DS cars in Australia that Mr. John Paas started many moons ago.

The plate was in the first place I looked- so not as safe as I thought!

Body number 193014751
Series 12123
Colour 2226761

Bruce.

 

[nota]

Not to be overly pedantic to confuse the good Docteur, but rather to be precise, the Holden "FB" pictured by Middlemoon (linked below) is instead an earlier 'FE' model-series Holden circa 1956~57. My fading memory tells me that this particular FE colour differed and was darker and not the same as that later Parisienne colour, also linked below.

The Parisienne colour looks very much the same to me as an 1961 Holden 'EK' colour which was generically known as Salmon Pink, and I think named by Holden for their cars as Barrier Coral.

Please see this link underneath for an example of Barrier Coral (sorry, I don't know how to 'save' these type of pictures if useful for a forum reference - maybe another poster can?).
http://australia.trovit.com/cars/in....1/org.1/pop.1/publisher_id./referer_id.1/t.1
I suspect the exterior of this above EK Holden might have been resprayed with a more modern type of paint and not in the original nitrocellulose - which gives a much softer hue, but the picture of the painted dashboard might be a more accurate reproduction of original Barrier Coral?

I also recall very early model ('XK' and/or 'XL' model-series Australian-manufactured) Ford Falcons being produced in this Salmon Pink colour, or very similar. It was a very snazzy colour in its day, the height of fashion.

A big Thank You to Docteur Danche for his fabulous, wonderful, Citroen website!

________________________

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22351&d=1319882903 (Holden FE)

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22352&d=1319885352 (Citroen)

 

[donat]

From my understanding (which is nowhere near enthusiasm and interest), there is no accurate information in regards to:

• The total number of cars assembled in Australia
• The full range of colours available and their respective codes
• The seat trim variances - two tone and mono; and the colour options thereof to the customer
• If all cars had the Citroën script on either the bonnet or the boot lid, and if not - why not?
• The true number of restorable and registered cars left today
• The number of cars sold though the auspices of Commonwealth Motors and Buckle

Surely someone who worked in Heidelberg or sold these cars at time would still be around and have this data available or Citroën themselves would have the data on which engines were doled out to Australia for assembly.

And another thing - that does the P stand for on the engine block plate?

 

[Middlemoon.1]

Thanks nota...yes I don't know my Holden models very well. But this certainly was very close to the colour I recall. Yes I remember the 'salmon' and 'coral' references - a fabulous 50s colour that was definitely part of the Parisienne range.

The EK colour looks a little 'washed-out' in comparison to what I remember on the ID it was pinker / warmer...but this is splitting hairs now, suffice to say this was a Parisienne colour not represented by Reynolds I think. Donat the citroen script on the bonnet is an English thing to my knowledge, but a few have popped them on other cars. It was a very french thing to leave all such adornment off the early id/ds save for the chevrons on the boot. The Australian Parisienne followed the French cues of course so no such badging. Marchal accessory lamps were available for them but very atypical.

If William's car was originally this colour, and his colour number is different to my old ID colour badge - which seems to be incorrect - then that might be the correct code to complete this list. I am drawn to think that this was all an inexact science at Continental and General at the time!

These are among some of the rarest early D models and worthy of great respect, such as Yves is demonstrating - thank you Docteur! And Donat I'm very pleased that Harriet is in such excellent hands.

Actually, I also recall an original 'purple' coloured ID. I remember thinking, 'why didn't my dad get that colour instead of grey?' Who remembers that one?!

Also, I've got a theory that the '62 model year is the greatest survivor among the Parisiennes - if you count in terms of operational examples around since the 80s. I know of at least 8 runners today and a few more close behind, and many of them were at the 50th Anniversary celebrations in Canberra. Why might that be? The number produced that year, something in the water? With the power brake yet overall simplicity perhaps they evolved better? They seem to have rusted less, also, but I'm being very subjective now!

The Parisienne tells a tantalizing story of a relationship between the French and our local industry at the time. It is a car with a peculiar antipodean flavour. Very special - our french holden....I mean in the nicest of ways!



Tim

 

[dogboy]

From my understanding (which is nowhere near enthusiasm and interest), there is no accurate information in regards to:

• The total number of cars assembled in Australia
• The full range of colours available and their respective codes
• The seat trim variances - two tone and mono; and the colour options thereof to the customer
• If all cars had the Citroën script on either the bonnet or the boot lid, and if not - why not?
• The true number of restorable and registered cars left today
• The number of cars sold though the auspices of Commonwealth Motors and Buckle

Surely someone who worked in Heidelberg or sold these cars at time would still be around and have this data available or Citroën themselves would have the data on which engines were doled out to Australia for assembly.

And another thing - that does the P stand for on the engine block plate?

not sure who has done this site but gives some ID info
http://www.denmarkwa.biz/citroen/ID19/
would the P stand for parissene?
attached are photos of my 1966 Heidleberg ID19... Believed to be the last known survivor from the Heidleberg factory

 

[Hotrodelectric]

Got it, Nota. I was able to simply copy and paste it. :headbang: